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Wellman Has Permanently Harmed Wake Forest Basketball

Douhtery "killed" UNC basketball with 1 season then got them to the NIT without a slightly less fat Sean May.

Jeffy hasn't done anything close to that. While our expectations might not need to be as high as for Douhtery at UNC, they at least made the decision to see the coach wasn't working out and bring in good ole roy.

With Wellman....
 
FreeStateDeac said:
Just like Notre Dame football was permanently destroyed by Gerry Faust. Just like UNC basketball was permanently destroyed by Matt Doherty. Just like Alabama football was permanently destroyed by Mike Price. Just like Louisville football was permanently destroyed by Steve Kragthorpe....

I am as Bzzout as the next guy (well, apparently not), but some of this stuff is just ridiculous.
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I suppose you decided to toss Louisville football in there because without it your point was freaking idiotic
 
FreeStateDeac said:
Just like Notre Dame football was permanently destroyed by Gerry Faust. Just like UNC basketball was permanently destroyed by Matt Doherty. Just like Alabama football was permanently destroyed by Mike Price. Just like Louisville football was permanently destroyed by Steve Kragthorpe....

I am as Bzzout as the next guy (well, apparently not), but some of this stuff is just ridiculous.
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Oh cool. Good to know our program has an equivalent (or even similar) level of historical significance, brand recognition, financial resources, alumni presence in professional leagues, and public awareness as Alabama football, Notre Dame football, and UNC basketball. Thanks for the pro tip, I feel much better!
 
Milhouse said:
I suppose you decided to toss Louisville football in there because without it your point was freaking idiotic
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Oh, so is your point that Wake Forest basketball -- because it's a small private school -- can never recover from a bad coach by hiring a good coach? It appears to be your point, and if so, it is freaking idiotic. Wake provides Exhibit A: Bob Staak to Dave Odom. Or maybe you don't think Bob Staak was that bad a coach, or Dave Odom was that good a coach. Whatever.

Or if your point is that college athletics is now so money dominated that a small private school like Wake -- in contrast to private schools like Notre Dame and Stanford -- is so lacking in financial and alumni resources that it can never recover from a bad coach, then that is what some on this board like to call LOWF. I actually agree with you to this extent: A bad coaching hire like Bzz can do severe and long-lasting damage to a program like Wake's that is not blessed with the monetary or other resources of a Stanford, Notre Dame or Duke. But where I obviously disagree with you and the OP is that I think making a great coaching hire is not a fruitless exercise, and that the program can be rebuilt with the right hire. And I probably agree with you in the sentiment that Ron Wellman is not the guy to make that great coaching hire when Bzz is finally let go.
 
FreeStateDeac said:
Oh, so is your point that Wake Forest basketball -- because it's a small private school -- can never recover from a bad coach by hiring a good coach? It appears to be your point, and if so, it is freaking idiotic. Wake provides Exhibit A: Bob Staak to Dave Odom. Or maybe you don't think Bob Staak was that bad a coach, or Dave Odom was that good a coach. Whatever.

Or if your point is that college athletics is now so money dominated that a small private school like Wake -- in contrast to private schools like Notre Dame and Stanford -- is so lacking in financial and alumni resources that it can never recover from a bad coach, then that is what some on this board like to call LOWF. I actually agree with you to this extent: A bad coaching hire like Bzz can do severe and long-lasting damage to a program like Wake's that is not blessed with the monetary or other resources of a Stanford, Notre Dame or Duke. But where I obviously disagree with you and the OP is that I think making a great coaching hire is not a fruitless exercise, and that the program can be rebuilt with the right hire. And I probably agree with you in the sentiment that Ron Wellman is not the guy to make that great coaching hire when Bzz is finally let go.
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no. my point was that comparing wake forest basketball to alabama football, notre dame football, and unc basketball is idiotic
 
Alumni and students will always come back around if/when we start winning again. What dissapoints me with basketball and to a lesser degree football is with Childress, Duncan, Skip, Paul and the OB we had really made strides with non-alumni and particularly in the Triad; for a while we could legitimately claim to be "The Triad's Team". We've lost a lot of that momentum; will be hard to pry them back, particularly with APP going FBS for football in our back yard and the ever-present comfort of being a "me-too" Hole fan.
 
What level of winning will bring alumni and students back?
 
Milhouse said:
no. my point was that comparing wake forest basketball to alabama football, notre dame football, and unc basketball is idiotic
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The issue raised by the OP was whether a bad coach can destroy an athletic program permanently, regardless of how great the next coaching hire is. That issue can be discussed with regards to sports in general, whether the NBA, NFL, Alabama, Notre Dame or small schools like Butler, Creighton or Wichita State. And it can also be discussed with regard to Wake, which is small and private, but does have the resources of the ACC ($$$$$$). Discussing it does not mean that Wake is ND football or UNC basketball. It does mean that both recovered from terrible coaches with great coaching hires and we can too. Or maybe you don't think Wake basketball can ever recover, although you haven't made that clear, focusing instead on name-calling.
 
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DownEastDeac said:
Alumni and students will always come back around if/when we start winning again. What dissapoints me with basketball and to a lesser degree football is with Childress, Duncan, Skip, Paul and the OB we had really made strides with non-alumni and particularly in the Triad; for a while we could legitimately claim to be "The Triad's Team". We've lost a lot of that momentum; will be hard to pry them back, particularly with APP going FBS for football in our back yard and the ever-present comfort of being a "me-too" Hole fan.
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This is very true. I have a number of friends who didn't go to Wake who are passing on season tickets this year. I'm in for the long haul.
 
We were lucky they bought season tickets last year.
 
DownEastDeac said:
Alumni and students will always come back around if/when we start winning again. What dissapoints me with basketball and to a lesser degree football is with Childress, Duncan, Skip, Paul and the OB we had really made strides with non-alumni and particularly in the Triad; for a while we could legitimately claim to be "The Triad's Team". We've lost a lot of that momentum; will be hard to pry them back, particularly with APP going FBS for football in our back yard and the ever-present comfort of being a "me-too" Hole fan.
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You will have entire years of alums that will have never experienced a winning basketball season. That's going to hurt. Football sucked when I was there, and most of the people that care about football are the people who went during the Phonz and Curry years. I don't know anyone in my group of friends that cares about football now.
 
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