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  1. #181
    Awesome. Dishonest accounting and CBO gaming has an unpleasant habit of disintegrating when confronted with reality.

  2. #182
    http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2...alth-insurance

    There is this also...

    "The Department of Health and Human Services recently evaluated proposed insurance premiums in 11 states, reporting that prices for small-business plans in those states have come in an average of 18 percent lower than the premiums employers were paying prior to the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act."
    When in doubt, rub one out -BiffTannen

  3. #183
    So do we just pretend the other 39 states don't exist?

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by 2&2 Slider To Leyritz View Post
    So do we just pretend the other 39 states don't exist?
    I think they were just using the 11 states they sampled and the results from those samples, but as long as they don't have coastlines, yes we can pretend they don't exist.
    When in doubt, rub one out -BiffTannen

  5. #185
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    I got a refund in the mail today from a health insurance company. They say that because of the ACA they have to spend 80 percent of premium monies on services leaving a max administration/profit of 20%. This is apparently one way to try and help us the consumer get reasonable value for our HC dollar.

    Hey, I was happy to get the refund.
    I love mankind...itís people I canít stand!!

  6. #186
    Older than Dirt WFU71's Avatar
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    Here's one that mirrors some of rj's thoughts, IIRC:
    http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch...-save-billions

    "The savings would come from slashing administrative waste and negotiating drug prices..."

  7. #187
    Older than Dirt WFU71's Avatar
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    http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapoth...t-time-nation/

    "Denialism may be too strong a term.[1] But there seem to be a lot of people arguing that Obamacare has little or nothing to do with the rise in part-time employment. Some deny the rise is even happening, while others are content to deny that Obamacare is the culprit. Admittedly, it takes a little detective work, but if we systematically review the available empirical evidence in an even-handed fashion, the conclusion seems inescapable: Obamacare is accelerating a disturbing trend towards “a nation of part-timers.” This is not good news for America..."

  8. #188
    PM a mod to cement your internet status forever RJKarl's Avatar
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    This was happening before Obamacare. UPS, WalMart and other companies have been doing this for years to avoid paying benefits or even giving vacation or sick time.

    As to why eleven states, many other states are trying to opt out. Also those eleven have a significant portion of the US population. NY and CA alone are probably over 20% of all Americans.

  9. #189
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    ^^ see denialism at its finest.

  10. #190
    PM a mod to cement your internet status forever RJKarl's Avatar
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    It's not denialism. It's a business trend that has been going on for a decade.

    Denialismn is your refusal to admit that so far about 40% of Americans will be saving an average of 18% on their health insurance because of Obamacare.

    Denialism on your part is avoiding that millions of seniors have already saved tens of billions of dollars of prescriptions because of Obamacare.

    Denialism on your part is avoiding the fact that for decades the #1 reason for personal bankruptcies in the US was due to medical expenses. Most of these happened because people had gone over their annual or lifetime caps. That can't happen any more as caps can't exist under Obamacare.

    Denialism is your will avoidance of the million or more 21-26yos who can stay on their parents' insurance because of Obamacare.

    Anyone who thought this would be implemented without any problems was being naive and unrealistic.

  11. #191
    Older than Dirt WFU71's Avatar
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    Please remember that the 18% cited from the study is for small businesses in selected states, not all of the citizens of those states.

  12. #192
    My health insurance has become much much shittier because of obamacare. I equate it to what happened when the government started putting regulations in place to protect people from banks and credit card companies. With those regulations they told credit cards and banks they couldn't screw over really dumb people with 40 dollar charges on repeated overdrafts etc.. So since a bunch of dumbasses couldn't manage their finances the government protected them and to make up lost revenues the rest normal responsible people were hit with more charges. Same with my insurance now to make things up on the back end my co-pay has gone up, services have been cut etc... it was great before now its just ok, all so that other people can get poor coverage.

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJKarl View Post
    It's not denialism. It's a business trend that has been going on for a decade.

    Denialismn is your refusal to admit that so far about 40% of Americans will be saving an average of 18% on their health insurance because of Obamacare.

    Denialism on your part is avoiding that millions of seniors have already saved tens of billions of dollars of prescriptions because of Obamacare.

    Denialism on your part is avoiding the fact that for decades the #1 reason for personal bankruptcies in the US was due to medical expenses. Most of these happened because people had gone over their annual or lifetime caps. That can't happen any more as caps can't exist under Obamacare.

    Denialism is your will avoidance of the million or more 21-26yos who can stay on their parents' insurance because of Obamacare.

    Anyone who thought this would be implemented without any problems was being naive and unrealistic.
    40% of the people save 18%?

    Ill take meaningless statistics that i just pulled out of my butt for $1000 Alex. 50% of the time it works every time.

  14. #194
    PM a mod to cement your internet status forever RJKarl's Avatar
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    About 40% of the population live in the states that have those projected savings.

    The only thing that needs to pulled out of an ass is your head.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by ThinkingWithMyDeac View Post
    My health insurance has become much much shittier because of obamacare. I equate it to what happened when the government started putting regulations in place to protect people from banks and credit card companies. With those regulations they told credit cards and banks they couldn't screw over really dumb people with 40 dollar charges on repeated overdrafts etc.. So since a bunch of dumbasses couldn't manage their finances the government protected them and to make up lost revenues the rest normal responsible people were hit with more charges. Same with my insurance now to make things up on the back end my co-pay has gone up, services have been cut etc... it was great before now its just ok, all so that other people can get poor coverage.
    Which services have been cut?
    When in doubt, rub one out -BiffTannen

  16. #196
    Vision plan was cut, also even if things aren't cut they are 10% more expensive as a result of increased co-pay.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by ThinkingWithMyDeac View Post
    Vision plan was cut, also even if things aren't cut they are 10% more expensive as a result of increased co-pay.
    How much did your co-pay increase, 10%?
    When in doubt, rub one out -BiffTannen

  18. #198
    Yeah so I am probably an anomaly because of where I work and how the insurance is set up. However before it was 95% coverage in core network, the network in which I work in. Then it was 80% for anything outside the network. This changed to 85% coverage core network and I think the outside network also changed. So it was like 10% and an increase in deductible as well. Its not much but it has changed this year.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by RJKarl View Post
    It's not denialism. It's a business trend that has been going on for a decade.

    Denialismn is your refusal to admit that so far about 40% of Americans will be saving an average of 18% on their health insurance because of Obamacare.

    Denialism on your part is avoiding that millions of seniors have already saved tens of billions of dollars of prescriptions because of Obamacare.

    Denialism on your part is avoiding the fact that for decades the #1 reason for personal bankruptcies in the US was due to medical expenses. Most of these happened because people had gone over their annual or lifetime caps. That can't happen any more as caps can't exist under Obamacare.

    Denialism is your will avoidance of the million or more 21-26yos who can stay on their parents' insurance because of Obamacare.

    Anyone who thought this would be implemented without any problems was being naive and unrealistic.
    There are some major misinterpretations here.

    Lets start with the idea that 40% of Americans will save 18%. Um, no. Lets look at NY. The rate discussions being discussed in NY are for the Individual market which is a fraction of the market (less than 7% nationally). In NY, the individual market has shrunk 96% since 1994 when many of the NY mandates kicked it so NY is even smaller. Plus, we just did some quick actuarial analysis and the feds didn't really do an apples to apples comparison (i.e. comparing an expensive NY policy to a less reach exchange plan). So I question just how much was "saved".

    There's also a lot of chatter around how regulators are beating down prices for PR reasons. The trouble with this? Well, there are reinsurance programs that are federally funded that will make up the projected shortfalls. Lets see how many "refunds" we will get next year. This will neve rake the headlines but masks the real costs.

    On the Part D doughnut hole side, I can assure you someone (often other Srs) are paying for this. This was a benefit mandate and it was priced, directly and indirectly. There are no savings here, just switching it from one place to another. Totally mis-leading to say these are "savings". If anything, it increases spend as folks use benefits MORE when they are free. Novel idea.

    On the bankruptcy side, the idea that its lifetime caps causing this is just wrong. I've worked in this industry for ~20 years and we've had 5 people hit it. 5. People go into bankruptcy often b/c they can't work when they get this ill and thus can't pay their bills. Obamacare doesn't necessarily fix this problem.

    I'm sure you will call me names, a shill, whatever, but your points here are inaccurate.

  20. #200
    Aetna pulls out from MD exchange as the Insurance Dept lowered them too much...

    http://www.baltimoresun.com/health/b...,6211024.story

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