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ACA Running Thread

Deacon923 said:
Here's a link to the actual McKinsey study, the previous link was to a left-leaning commentator.

One thing that may impact this conversation is that apparently McKinsey doesn't have full information on NC yet. So it may be that 2&2's experience is more representative of NC, if not necessarily representative of the nation as a whole.
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It also looks from the study that it only looked at renewals of individual plans bought on the exchange in 2014. So it has absolutely nothing to do with (a) group plans; or, more specifically, (b) groups in grandfathered non-compliant plans now being pushed under Obamacare compliance. So, it has virtually nothing to do with the discussion on this thread or plans offered by small businesses. But it is a study done by someone on something, so Numbers will believe it and apply it to whatever situation he encounters.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
Ah yes #anecdotes. Continue to live your life confining your knowledge to only things that you personally experience. The war against statistics from 40+ year olds continues. #undefeatedonanecdotes #statisticsaremeaningless

God you're stupid sometimes.
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wut?
 
2and2, no. As example one employee broke her elbow needed a plate and pins, two night stay in hospital, total bill just short of 50000.00 and she is happy to have 90% of that bill paid.
 
So I was wrong that it applied to you, it doesn't change the underlying premise that you will a) find any reason to not believe statistics if they are counter to your worldview, b) are so jaded about the ACA that someone could show you without a doubt it was saving the bulk of people money and you would still rail against it because you were getting screwed (which ties back into case (a) where you probably wouldn't even believe it in the first place since it wasn't happening to you), and c) your language of "community organizer" and blaming Obama for everything that happens obfuscates any legitimate argument you might have had in the first place.

In sum, the ACA is not perfect and it is still in its early stages. There are going to be ups and downs, but remember that Obama wanted to go to single payer and we ended up with the current model because of political compromise and the lack of a good-faith effort from the GOP in engaging in a reasonable dialogue. Not to mention the primary structure of the ACA is a recycled Republican idea from the 1990's and I think we can all agree that you wouldn't be upset with this if it was paraded in by a GOP Congress.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
Sure this is what happens when states intentionally undermine a federal program they don't agree with so they can turn around and tell voters in that state "look the ACA didn't work!!" when it wasn't fully funded, no infrastructure was provided by the state, and the state refused to give it a shot to work.
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This is what I am thinking. Isn't Wrangor in Miss and 2and2 in NC?
 
WakeandBake said:
wut?
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Well I was going to just use "conservative war on logic and education continues" but I agree with whoever said on another thread that the lack of trust in statistics and certain intellectual concepts seems to be concentrated more with old people than conservatives or Republicans - they just happen to be on the right more likely than not because of their demographic.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
Well I was going to just use "conservative war on logic and education continues" but I agree with whoever said on another thread that the lack of trust in statistics and certain intellectual concepts seems to be concentrated more with old people than conservatives or Republicans - they just happen to be on the right more likely than not because of their demographic.
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I think, statistically, 40+ year olds trust statistics more than whippersnappers do. ;)
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
It also looks from the study that it only looked at renewals of individual plans bought on the exchange in 2014. So it has absolutely nothing to do with (a) group plans; or, more specifically, (b) groups in grandfathered non-compliant plans now being pushed under Obamacare compliance. So, it has virtually nothing to do with the discussion on this thread or plans offered by small businesses. But it is a study done by someone on something, so Numbers will believe it and apply it to whatever situation he encounters.
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To be clear, I did not post it because I thought it applied directly to you or contradicted anything you were saying, but simply because it's a study on ACA and this is the ACA thread. Sorry it got pulled into the ongoing slap fight.

The study itself seems like good news, or at least, not bad news for the law.
 
And could it be that these conservative, redneck states knew that if they didn't buy into the ACA that it would create some cases - like 2and2s - that they could point to and jump up and down and stomp their feet that ACA raised their rates? hmmmm?

:jfk:
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
So I was wrong that it applied to you, it doesn't change the underlying premise that you will a) find any reason to not believe statistics if they are counter to your worldview, b) are so jaded about the ACA that someone could show you without a doubt it was saving the bulk of people money and you would still rail against it because you were getting screwed (which ties back into case (a) where you probably wouldn't even believe it in the first place since it wasn't happening to you), and c) your language of "community organizer" and blaming Obama for everything that happens obfuscates any legitimate argument you might have had in the first place.

In sum, the ACA is not perfect and it is still in its early stages. There are going to be ups and downs, but remember that Obama wanted to go to single payer and we ended up with the current model because of political compromise and the lack of a good-faith effort from the GOP in engaging in a reasonable dialogue. Not to mention the primary structure of the ACA is a recycled Republican idea from the 1990's and I think we can all agree that you wouldn't be upset with this if it was paraded in by a GOP Congress.
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So Wellman tried to get Brad Stevens, couldn't get him, and hired [Redacted] instead because what the hell it has to be better than nothing, right?
 
Deacon923 said:
To be clear, I did not post it because I thought it applied directly to you or contradicted anything you were saying, but simply because it's a study on ACA and this is the ACA thread. Sorry it got pulled into the ongoing slap fight.

The study itself seems like good news, or at least, not bad news for the law.
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I don't know. Isn't the point that, as more people enroll in the individual exchanges, the risk is spread more broadly so premiums should go down? It isn't going up a massive amount, but it is still going up as more people are getting in. I'm not going to say for sure whether that is good or bad at this point, but it seems to contradict the intent.
 
I'm sorry if I don't shed too many tears for your added administrative workload as a small business owner if that's what it takes to ensure that five to six million people are now insured that previously weren't.

ETA: Decoupling health insurance and employers would really fix this though.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
I'm sorry if I don't shed too many tears for your added administrative workload as a small business owner if that's what it takes to ensure that five to six million people are now insured that previously weren't.

ETA: Decoupling health insurance and employers would really fix this though.
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Fair enough, but then don't complain about income stratification and CEO salaries and the like when WalMart and similar companies take over the economy because their economies of scale can handle the admin workload so, as Ph suggests should happen, the little guy ultimate just throws up his hands and sells out.
 
My idea the entire time has been to remove health insurance provisions from the employment arena and put it into the hands of the government. This removes the entire economies of scale problem relating to health insurance.
 
I think 2and2 and wrangor have legitimate gripes, they are just griping at the wrong politicians it seems.
 
WakeandBake said:
I think 2and2 and wrangor have legitimate gripes, they are just griping at the wrong politicians it seems.
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Well Wrangor is for single payer, but he should be griping at his leaders in MS for not setting up their own exchanges.

2&2 just seems to not like being a small business owner based on his griping here and on other threads. We learned back in the day that Mo' Money = Mo' Problems. 2&2 didn't listen.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
My idea the entire time has been to remove health insurance provisions from the employment arena and put it into the hands of the government. This removes the entire economies of scale problem relating to health insurance.
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Putting aside whether that is a good idea or not, that dream doesn't have anything to do with the logistics of Obamacare, which is what businesses of all sizes are actually currently faced with and what this thread is about.
 
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