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Thread: ACA Running Thread

  1. #121
    Older than Dirt WFU71's Avatar
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    http://www.washingtonpost.com/busine...871_story.html

    "Only three out of every 10 small employers say they are prepared to comply with new regulations under the law, while seven in 10 say those regulations have made it more difficult to grow, according to a new survey from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. Meanwhile, the percentage of firms expressing concerns over Obamacare have jumped by a double-digit margin since this time last year."

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by RJKarl View Post
    The reality is things could be better and be fixed easier if one side wouldn't waste so much time trying to kill it. Today, House Republicans voted for the THIRTY-EIGHTH time to kill ACA.

    If they EVER made an effort to work with Obama, it would work better. One side's agenda is to attack, attack , attack rather than fix.

    Every major social law has been amended and massaged during its first few years. From Social Security to Medicare to GI Bills to many others, the sides saw the problems, worked together and made each program be better than it was when passed.

    This time, we have one side whose only goal is bring everything Obama wants to do. There has never been a more universally obstructionist and destructive Congress than today.
    Gee, lets think why that may be? Could it have anything to do with the fact that this social law was originally passed in the most partisan way with the support of only one party?

  3. #123
    PM a mod to cement your internet status forever RJKarl's Avatar
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    WRONG...they were told if you didn't the GOP 100% of what they wanted the Dems would get no votes.

    Also the ACA is 2/3 or more of a GOP bill from the 90s. Jesus, saying their ideas weren't included is total BS. The mandate was first offered by Nixon. Then it was reborn in the 90s by the American Enterprise Institute.

    But don't be bothered by facts.

  4. #124
    PM a mod to cement your internet status forever RJKarl's Avatar
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    What I'd like to see is everyone in the country be able to purchase a policy from Medicare. It should be no different than buying it from BC/BS or United Healthcare.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by RJKarl View Post
    WRONG...they were told if you didn't the GOP 100% of what they wanted the Dems would get no votes.

    Also the ACA is 2/3 or more of a GOP bill from the 90s. Jesus, saying their ideas weren't included is total BS. The mandate was first offered by Nixon. Then it was reborn in the 90s by the American Enterprise Institute.

    But don't be bothered by facts.
    The final vote tally for the Senate version of President Obama's health care reform legislation in the House was 219-212, with 34 Democrats joining all Republicans in opposition.

    So you are correct do not be bothered by facts.

    You are a broken record on this, is a dem only bill, they own it. If it turns out to be the best thing ever they get all the credit, if it turns out to be a disaster they get all the blame. You do not get bipartisen fixes to bills that one side shoves down the throats of the other. That is not good governance but it is what happens in the real world. The dems will need to retake the house to legally make changes to this bill, but this administration doesn't seem to care if they do things legally or not, so you have that working for your side.

  6. #126
    The Dems knew this thing was a disaster that would never work from the beginning. That was the plan. They wanted the US healthcare system to implode so that the govt could move in take over the entire thing and "save" healthcare for America. The only way the govt was going to be able to take over control of it was to destroy it first. Govt healthcare is a reality. Get used to it. Just don't get sick.

  7. #127
    Why does the House keep voting on this? When the Senate didn't take up the legislation after the first 37 times, they thought the magic number would be 38? I can maybe see having a symbolic vote when a new member is appointed by special election so they can get it on their record. I doubt any constituents are saying, "you only voted against it 40 times, I was hoping it would come up for vote 50 times, so I'm supporting a primary opponent who will make sure a hollow vote gets repeated at least 4 dozen times".

  8. #128
    PM a mod to cement your internet status forever RJKarl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by olddke View Post
    The final vote tally for the Senate version of President Obama's health care reform legislation in the House was 219-212, with 34 Democrats joining all Republicans in opposition.

    So you are correct do not be bothered by facts.

    You are a broken record on this, is a dem only bill, they own it. If it turns out to be the best thing ever they get all the credit, if it turns out to be a disaster they get all the blame. You do not get bipartisen fixes to bills that one side shoves down the throats of the other. That is not good governance but it is what happens in the real world. The dems will need to retake the house to legally make changes to this bill, but this administration doesn't seem to care if they do things legally or not, so you have that working for your side.

    Many Dems voted against it for not going far enough. Some thought it was too conservative.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by RJKarl View Post
    Many Dems voted against it for not going far enough. Some thought it was too conservative.
    Just not true. Most of the dems were rural dems who voted no because they were in conservative districts. There was a lot of posturing but the liberal wing fell in line come vote time.

    And to blame the implementation issues on a lack of bi-partisan support is fallacy.

    The whole "buy into Medicare" as an option is so full of unintended consequences its not a serious option.
    Last edited by CHDeac; 11-04-2013 at 07:19 PM.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by 89DeaconMike View Post
    The Dems knew this thing was a disaster that would never work from the beginning. That was the plan. They wanted the US healthcare system to implode so that the govt could move in take over the entire thing and "save" healthcare for America. The only way the govt was going to be able to take over control of it was to destroy it first. Govt healthcare is a reality. Get used to it. Just don't get sick.
    While your premise is totally irrational to begin with, I completely agree that telling people not to get sick will decrease the number of sick people. Why do we even have medical schools! Just tell people to eat an apple a day, problem solved.
    When in doubt, rub one out -BiffTannen

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by CHDeac View Post
    The whole "buy into Medicare" as an option is so full of unintended consequences its not a serious option.
    Although I have an idea on a few of them, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on where this would lead us.

  12. #132
    We have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it....indeed.

    Move over NSA, here comes the Obamacare Big Brother database - See more at: http://rare.us/story/move-over-nsa-h....BIGFpN7s.dpuf


    Would you trust thousands of low-level Federal bureaucrats and contractors with one-touch access to your private financial and medical information? Under Obamacare you won’t have any choice.
    As the Obamacare train-wreck begins to gather steam, there is increasing concern in Congress over something called the Federal Data Services Hub. The Data Hub is a comprehensive database of personal information being established by the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) to implement the federally facilitated health insurance exchanges. The purpose of the Data Hub, according to a June 2013 Government Accountability Office (GAO) report, is to provide “electronic, near real-time access to federal data” and “access to state and third party data sources needed to verify consumer-eligibility information.” In these days of secret domestic surveillance by the intelligence community, rogue IRS officials and state tax agencies using private information for political purposes, and police electronically logging every license plate that passes by, the idea of the centralized Data Hub is making lawmakers and citizens nervous.
    They certainly should be; the potential for abuse is enormous. The massive, centralized database will include comprehensive personal information such as income and financial data, family size, citizenship and immigration status, incarceration status, social security numbers, and private health information. It will compile dossiers based on information obtained from the IRS, the Department of Homeland Security, the Department of Defense, the Veterans Administration, the Office of Personnel Management, the Social Security Administration, state Medicaid databases, and for some reason the Peace Corps. The Data Hub will provide web-based, one-stop shopping for prying into people’s personal affairs.
    - See more at: http://rare.us/story/move-over-nsa-h....BIGFpN7s.dpuf

    http://rare.us/story/move-over-nsa-h...ther-database/

  13. #133
    Robert O'Kelley DeacMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJKarl View Post
    Many Dems voted against it for not going far enough. Some thought it was too conservative.
    Take a look at this map. It is the house vote on Obamacare. Light blue represents a "no" vote from a Democrat. Then try to explain your statement above again.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:11...l_call_165.svg

  14. #134
    Older than Dirt WFU71's Avatar
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    The "Death Panel" bill to be re-introduced:
    http://www.politico.com/story/2013/0...536.html?hp=f1

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by WFU71 View Post
    The "Death Panel" bill to be re-introduced:
    http://www.politico.com/story/2013/0...536.html?hp=f1
    I still can't believe that one attention seeking dipshit from Alaska has completely framed a topic/discussion this important.
    When in doubt, rub one out -BiffTannen

  16. #136
    More fun from Obamacare:

    Obamacare’s Branch of the NSA
    Community organizers will use a Federal Data Hub to sign up people for subsidies — and even ballots.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...-nsa-john-fund

    "The Department of Health and Human Services is about to hire an army of “patient navigators” to inform Americans about the subsidized insurance promised by Obamacare and assist them in enrolling. These organizers will be guided by the new Federal Data Hub, which will give them access to reams of personal information compiled by federal agencies ranging from the IRS to the Department of Defense and the Veterans Administration. “The federal government is planning to quietly enact what could be the largest consolidation of personal data in the history of the republic,” Paul Howard of the Manhattan Institute and Stephen T. Parente, a University of Minnesota finance professor, wrote in USA Today. No wonder that there are concerns about everything from identity theft to the ability of navigators to use the system to register Obamacare participants to vote....


    This spring, House Oversight and Government Reform Committee lawyers were also told by HHS that, despite the fact that navigators will have access to sensitive data such as Social Security numbers and tax returns, there will be no criminal background checks required for them. Indeed, they won’t even have to have high-school diplomas. Both U.S. Census Bureau and IRS employees must meet those minimum standards, if only because no one wants someone who has been convicted of identity theft getting near Americans’ personal records. But HHS is unconcerned. It points out that navigators will have to take a 20–30 hour online course about how the 1,200-page law works, which, given its demonstrated complexity, is like giving someone a first-aid course and then making him a med-school professor."

    It amazes me that people are still whining and b-s-ing over the Zimmerman verdict an shit like this goes un noticed. I am pretty sure that if this was know before the vote on the POS legislation, it would not have passed.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by 89DeaconMike View Post
    The Dems knew this thing was a disaster that would never work from the beginning. That was the plan. They wanted the US healthcare system to implode so that the govt could move in take over the entire thing and "save" healthcare for America. The only way the govt was going to be able to take over control of it was to destroy it first. Govt healthcare is a reality. Get used to it. Just don't get sick.
    The cynic in me believes this to be correct.

  18. #138
    PM a mod to cement your internet status forever RJKarl's Avatar
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    The GOP is threatening to shut the government to de-fund ACA.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...over-obamacare

    Obama and the Dems need to sack up and call them out on it. There are several million seniors (who do vote in off year elections) who have saved tens of billions via ACA who would oppose this policy.

    There are allegedly 1-2M 21-26 yos who are still on their parents' policies. They would be outraged if this was rescinded.

    Millions of others support the concept of no lifetime limits.

    For once Obama and the Dems should go on offense. For once they should call the GOP out at the top of their lungs.

    But they won't. They are wusses.

  19. #139
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    Democrats won't do it because to do it would be to defend the ACA and no one wants to be out in that position.

  20. #140
    PM a mod to cement your internet status forever RJKarl's Avatar
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    If they structure it as I discussed, it would be a net positive. Seniors alone can swing a lot of districts in off year elections.

    If you add that the GOP has voted multiple times to voucherize Medicare and the Dems would win seniors in a big way.

    Again I don't think they have the brains or the balls to do it.

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