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Retained Grobe Staff

Receivers not named Campanaro actually catching passes isn't that hard to judge. Also linemen actually blocking the opposing team's players should be pretty easy to see as well.
Schemes as to how the players are used are on the coordinators. Individual skills are on the position coaches. If defensive players can't/won't tackle properly, that is on the position coaches. If they are in defenses that don't work to stop the opposition, that is on the coordinator.
 
Deaconblue said:
Receivers not named Campanaro actually catching passes isn't that hard to judge. Also linemen actually blocking the opposing team's players should be pretty easy to see as well.
Schemes as to how the players are used are on the coordinators. Individual skills are on the position coaches. If defensive players can't/won't tackle properly, that is on the position coaches. If they are in defenses that don't work to stop the opposition, that is on the coordinator.
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Well it isn't hard to judge that the WRs after Camp dropped a lot of passes. But are you sure that is due to the positional coach not doing his job? Perhaps they just aren't good and even the best WR coach in the country couldn't have turned that water into wine. I'm not definitively saying that is the case here, but I do think many are incorrect on here to be using "Linebackers missed a lot of tackles this year. LB coach must be bad" style logic. Especially for coaches that have only been at Wake for a year or two.

ETA: I'm in no way advocating for Grobe coaches to remain. But if a couple do, I think you can give Clawson the benefit of the doubt
 
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WRs who can't catch just don't show up on the field without coaches recruiting them, failing to teach them how to catch, then putting them on the field.

Feel free to parse about which coach. If the WR coach isn't responsible for the WRs, that seems like a problem.
 
Yeah, not sure how you evaluate a WR coach beyond who they get commits from and how the WRs perform on the field. That said, I don't think we have any hard data on Stubblefield's recruiting at Wake. Perhaps those that know more of his prior gig can comment.
 
PhDeac said:
WRs who can't catch just don't show up on the field without coaches recruiting them, failing to teach them how to catch, then putting them on the field.

Feel free to parse about which coach. If the WR coach isn't responsible for the WRs, that seems like a problem.
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I just mentioned WR because that what the response to me mentioned. If a coach has been around long enough to recruit the players they are coaching on the field, that's a different story. Look at Coach Himebauch, who has (controversially) been one of the most named as a possibility to stay on. He's only been able to bring one recruiting class of lineman in to Wake.

I watched game after game of our O-Line struggle last couple years. But I personally can't translate that to the 2nd year positional coach being bad. At least with enough certainty to have a strong negative opinion if Clawson thinks he's good.
 
I'd hope Claw can bring in an OL coach with stronger evidence of success than "we can't tell."
 
The "we can't tell" is at Wake (if you choose to use that). So, that really just means that one should be cautious in using his time at Wake as the primary barometer. He has a prior track record to include in the evaluation. I think "we can't tell" is a bit simplistic to describe Himey, but if Clawson can't, then yes, he should do the work to find someone he does have confidence in.
 
PhDeac said:
I'd hope Claw can bring in an OL coach with stronger evidence of success than "we can't tell."
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I'd say this is some evidence of success:

Himebauch comes to Wake Forest after spending three years in the Canadian Football League with the Montreal Alouettes. The Alouettes franchise won back-to-back CFL Championships in 2009 and 2010.

During the 2011 season, the Alouettes boasted the league's leading passer (Anthony Calvillo, 5,251 yards) and leading rusher (Brandon Whitaker, 1,381 yards). His line protected Calvillo, who is professional football's all-time leading passer, and helped the Alouettes to league-bests in points scored (515) and yards of net offense (7,269). In addition, Himebauch tutored the Alouettes' Josh Bourke who was named the CFL's Outstanding Offensive Lineman.

In 2010, the Alouettes averaged 403 yards of offense per game and led the CFL in passing yards (5,675).

In Himebauch's first season, the Alouettes offensive line averaged 5.5 yards per rush, helping the team score at least 600 points for a second-straight season while amassing 390 yards of offense per game. Himebauch also coached offensive guard Scott Flory to his second-straight CFL Most Outstanding Lineman award in 2009."
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Taylor Stubblefield was a great receiver (left college with the NCAA record for catches). He has been a rolling stone his whole coaching career. Usually one year and then moved on. 6 schools in 7 years.

The other new coaches (hired in last two years) had at least one job of three+ years before getting to Wake.

My choices, in order, of coaches for Clawson to keep would be: Himebauch, Belin and Jackson.

Himebauch: O-line improving over the course of the season. Recruited all four of the freshmen O-linemen. They look like a good group. Comes from big time college sports background.
Belin: Inside linebackers arguably one of the stronger groups for Wake. Wake grad, knows what is required academically from personal experience.
Jackson: defensive backs, again one of the stronger groups. Coached all the defensive positions and had coordinator responsibilities. Has private school background at the dark blue institution down I-40.
 
Tobacco Road said:
The "we can't tell" is at Wake (if you choose to use that). So, that really just means that one should be cautious in using his time at Wake as the primary barometer. He has a prior track record to include in the evaluation. I think "we can't tell" is a bit simplistic to describe Himey, but if Clawson can't, then yes, he should do the work to find someone he does have confidence in.
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I think it is much easier for fans to evaluate head coaches and coordinators. Much more information and data on those higher level coaches. Positional coaches bounce around from school to school and even between positions on the same staff with great frequency. The on field success of their units is very scheme and player (that they often didn't have any say in recruiting) dependent.

I agree one important factor would be the success they had in recruiting at previous stops. But even that isn't easy to evaluate.
 
Stubblefield will likely have Campanaro's senior accomplishments and potential future NFL player on his resume as helping to develop him but....do we really think he had any real discernible impact on Campanaro's performance his senior year?

My point is that sometimes players can make positions coaches look good regardless of the actual influence of the position coaches. If we are judging Stubblefield based on the performance of the other WR's, then I am not really impressed.

The real head scratcher is when we got that Coach from Texas and he took over WRs and everyone saw improvement and then the next thing you know Grobe switched up his position and changes him to a DB coach IIRC. It made no sense and he seemed like a very good assistant Coach and then the next thing you know Grobe forces him out/fires him. I wish someone would enlighten us with the scoop on that.
 
I went to the BC and Army games and keyed in on Intermann. The cut blocking scheme they were running made him look stiff and slow. That scheme in ment for very quick OLs who can put their shoulder pad on the thigh pad of the DL, before the DL can get his hands on the OL to fend them off. When they went back to the spread, it fit the skill set that Chase and Intermann have, which is pass protection. Then, when Syracuse blitzed the inside wide splits, the team reverted to a standard split formation. That killed the natural running lanes the wide splits provided. If Himey was given the task of have a running/pass blocking scheme from a standard split formation, he could develope the personnel we already have into a competent unit. Having tall/fat guys dive at the DLs legs was a disaster that cost us BC, ULM games and nearly cost us at Army too. LOBO didn't realize this and everybody lost their jobs for it.
 
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YankeeInAtlanta said:
Stubblefield will likely have Campanaro's senior accomplishments and potential future NFL player on his resume as helping to develop him but....do we really think he had any real discernible impact on Campanaro's performance his senior year?

My point is that sometimes players can make positions coaches look good regardless of the actual influence of the position coaches. If we are judging Stubblefield based on the performance of the other WR's, then I am not really impressed.

The real head scratcher is when we got that Coach from Texas and he took over WRs and everyone saw improvement and then the next thing you know Grobe switched up his position and changes him to a DB coach IIRC. It made no sense and he seemed like a very good assistant Coach and then the next thing you know Grobe forces him out/fires him. I wish someone would enlighten us with the scoop on that.
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This statement is a little puzzling. Derrick Jackson came from Rice two years ago. Coached linebackers in 2012, and then DB's in 2013.

Lonnie Galloway was the WR coach who came from West Virginia, stayed three years and then moved on. He was replaced by Taylor Stubblefield for 2013
 
DEACS76 said:
It might be Tim Billings he's talking about.
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Tim Billings came to Wake in 2006 from SE Missouri State, where he had been head coach. He did coach wide receivers his first two years at Wake, then switched to DB for the next two, then coached defensive ends, and then outside linebackers for a year each before being let go (fired) at the end of 2011 season.

I think each of the groups he coached were pretty good the years he coached them. He may have felt under appreciated, as he was a former HC, and "co-defensive coordinator" but it was with Brian Knorr, Grobe's successor at Ohio.
 
Billings was, IMO, the best assistant of the Grobe tenure. Not sure his recruits were up to Wake standards; but the man can coach. When he coached WRs they performed much better than before or after.
 
" LOBO didn't realize this and everybody lost their jobs for it."

There were several things that baffled El Lobo over the years. This year it mattered more because the free ride from 2006 finally cashed out.
 
I was more than a little puzzled when Billings was let go. He apparently was responsible for bringing in some of the better players on recent teams (Nikita, AJ Marshall, RB Josh Harris, Tanner Price). As mentioned above, he also seemed to be one of the better coaches. Whichever group he coached seemed to be better than it was before he coached it, and regressed once he was moved elsewhere. He is now working at Memphis as D-line coach.
 
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