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Help Me Understand How We've Improved Character

bobknightfan said:
You cannot choke a person with one hand in a time period of two seconds, while that person is backing up. Yes, Knight had one hand on Reed...for that fleeting period of two seconds (which is why that video is almost unwatchable....they had to slow the two seconds down that much to make it seem like it was more than it was). A legitimate argument can be made that he shouldn't have done that.....but when you extend that argument to use the work "choke" you are sensationalizing & exaggerating the situation for effect. In other words, engaging in hyperbole. This is the kind of thing that is done all the time with Bob Knight.....like RJ saying that he "physically assaulted a helpless 60-year old woman".

So when you...or anyone else...says that Bob Knight "choked" a player, you are completely FOS.

The chair throw (singular, not plural) was one of the most overhyped things in Knight's entire history. It was basically nothing. He slid a chair across an empty court...other than a guy at the foul line...that didn't come anywhere close to hitting anyone (by design, I might add). It was an ill-advised attempt to fire up his players, and nothing more....as it was very early in the game. Showing a replay of that a bazillion times over the next 28 years...and constantly referring to it in plural terms...is yet another example of Bob Knight's critics' attempt to exaggerate & sensationalize anything that he might do to extend their own agenda against the man.

And once more, none of you know a goddamned thing about the situation in Puerto Rico.....which was nothing like what it has been made out to be by this same group of critics with an agenda to pursue.
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You are fucking delusional.

 
pourdeac said:
Dino's basic ability to coach was absolutely questioned during some game commentary, mirroring the complaints of the "DinoOut" crowd on these boards. I'll never forget it. The people who felt that way used the comments as proof that people "that knew coaching" saw the same thing as they did..maybe someone will admit it. The schtick at the time was...Dino wasn't very smart and the cross-eyed picture would appear like clockwork. Then when Dino started doing commentary on ESPN some were stunned that he actually understood the game.

The media comments were somewhat uncharacteristic as well given his success in the regular season. I never understood them, but if Wellman is using the media as a way to support Bz, which most on here think, then it probably worked before.
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Of course comments were made about his coaching ability by comentators, but I don't qualify that as trashing someone. The comments about his character from some on the boards would qualify as trashing, as well as Wellman's insistence on character issues being the reason for a change. Commenting on his coaching ability is not trashing.
 
bobknightfan said:
You cannot choke a person with one hand in a time period of two seconds, while that person is backing up. Yes, Knight had one hand on Reed...for that fleeting period of two seconds (which is why that video is almost unwatchable....they had to slow the two seconds down that much to make it seem like it was more than it was). A legitimate argument can be made that he shouldn't have done that.....but when you extend that argument to use the work "choke" you are sensationalizing & exaggerating the situation for effect. In other words, engaging in hyperbole. This is the kind of thing that is done all the time with Bob Knight.....like RJ saying that he "physically assaulted a helpless 60-year old woman".

So when you...or anyone else...says that Bob Knight "choked" a player, you are completely FOS.

The chair throw (singular, not plural) was one of the most overhyped things in Knight's entire history. It was basically nothing. He slid a chair across an empty court...other than a guy at the foul line...that didn't come anywhere close to hitting anyone (by design, I might add). It was an ill-advised attempt to fire up his players, and nothing more....as it was very early in the game. Showing a replay of that a bazillion times over the next 28 years...and constantly referring to it in plural terms...is yet another example of Bob Knight's critics' attempt to exaggerate & sensationalize anything that he might do to extend their own agenda against the man.

And once more, none of you know a goddamned thing about the situation in Puerto Rico.....which was nothing like what it has been made out to be by this same group of critics with an agenda to pursue.
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So you're saying you would be ok with your boss grabbing you by the throat as you were walking by, and physically pushing you backwards by the throat?
 
bkf's rationalization of bob knight's actions would make the rodney king jury blush.
 
bobknightfan said:
LOL. Good to know that you feel that beating up the mother of your child is not "OK". I feel so much better about you now.
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Curious that you followed this post with the soliloquy on Bob Knight. There are many folks that dont know the full story on a number of issues. There is a behavioral psychology observation that it is a shame that ignorance isnt painful. You seem to know more about Bob Knight than you do the situation with Tony and his family. Stick to what you know, or you invite folks that know a bit more than you do to direct harsh replies to you as you tend to do toward others. Carry on.

BTW, I am a fan of R.M. Knight myself!
 
Okay so he didn't choke the guy, he just assaulted him. Does that change the situation at all? No.
 
BeachBumDeac said:
There's a lot to criticize Wellman/bzd for, but it's pretty clear that Coron doesn't fit the one and done they were talking about.
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It's also clear he doesn't fit the "foundation" bullshit Wellman and Buzze talking about.
 
Publicly outing some players while covering for others is unethical. Wellman and funkies need to be shown the door.
 
How did we find out that Devin is in love with Mary Jane?
 
bobknightfan said:
You cannot choke a person with one hand in a time period of two seconds, while that person is backing up. Yes, Knight had one hand on Reed...for that fleeting period of two seconds (which is why that video is almost unwatchable....they had to slow the two seconds down that much to make it seem like it was more than it was). A legitimate argument can be made that he shouldn't have done that.....but when you extend that argument to use the work "choke" you are sensationalizing & exaggerating the situation for effect. In other words, engaging in hyperbole. This is the kind of thing that is done all the time with Bob Knight.....like RJ saying that he "physically assaulted a helpless 60-year old woman".

So when you...or anyone else...says that Bob Knight "choked" a player, you are completely FOS.

The chair throw (singular, not plural) was one of the most overhyped things in Knight's entire history. It was basically nothing. He slid a chair across an empty court...other than a guy at the foul line...that didn't come anywhere close to hitting anyone (by design, I might add). It was an ill-advised attempt to fire up his players, and nothing more....as it was very early in the game. Showing a replay of that a bazillion times over the next 28 years...and constantly referring to it in plural terms...is yet another example of Bob Knight's critics' attempt to exaggerate & sensationalize anything that he might do to extend their own agenda against the man.

And once more, none of you know a goddamned thing about the situation in Puerto Rico.....which was nothing like what it has been made out to be by this same group of critics with an agenda to pursue.
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If you really believe this and it's not a board persona you are a POS. Feel free to neg rep me. Again.
 
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I recall Dino coming up with a last second inbounds play (involving James Johnson) against Duke that made Coach K look as clueless as Auburn made Saban look on the FG return. I thought he could coach at that point.

I also recall in another game against Duke our top scorer - Jeff Teague - basically would walk across half court and stand in the far upper corner for entire offensive possessions. I think he scored two points for the game and those came very late. The initial thought he was upset with Ish Smith returning as PG and later that he and Ish had common taste in women. Nonetheless, Dino was criticized for losing control of his team, acting as an assistant coach would, and not being a head coach by not benching his star players. (to his defense - James Johnson could when he wanted to simply dominate stretches of a game and then would disappear, much like he has done in the pros - big game a few nights ago against San Antonio, let's see what happens the next few games).

As to Bobby Knight, I have long maintained he was the victim of being the last media star coach left standing. Just as TV began to feature coaches' reactions to plays (to this day, how many shots of Rick Pitino do you see during the course of a Louisville game?) and making them a media focus, all of them left in mass either to the NBA or retirement. Except one - Bobby Knight. As such, he was hounded to do or say something interesting and he had the personality to give them what they want.

But, I witnesses Knight at his best. When down by over 20 at home at the half to Iowa, he returned to the court and grabbed the PA. Fans, who were lifeless and quiet (like a Wake game now I assume), stopped in the aisle to listen. He very colorfully berated the crowd for their lack of support for the team, who while playing awful, still deserved the cheers of the crowds. By the time he threw the microphone into the desk, the place was bedlam. You know the team had to hear it all and they responded by winning the game by 20. Yep, he could be viewed as an ass by doing this, but it served its purpose.

I also give credit to Coach Knight for his support for decades of Langdon Turner - a center on the 1980 NIT Champs and 1981 NCAA Champs team - who was a lot like James Johnson - brilliant at times and absolutely awful at others. He just didn't have the motivation and was constantly in the coach's doghouse as a means to motivate him. When he was paralyzed in an accident a few months after the NCAA win and before the NBA draft, Bobby Knight asked Red Auerbach for a favor - it was Turner's dream to be drafted into the NBA, and the Boston Celtics drafted him. Coach Knight subsequently established foundations and helped in some business endeavors with Turner.

Yep, he's an awful guy... just like you see him depicted in the media.
 
oldmandeac said:
I recall Dino coming up with a last second inbounds play (involving James Johnson) against Duke that made Coach K look as clueless as Auburn made Saban look on the FG return. I thought he could coach at that point.

I also recall in another game against Duke our top scorer - Jeff Teague - basically would walk across half court and stand in the far upper corner for entire offensive possessions. I think he scored two points for the game and those came very late. The initial thought he was upset with Ish Smith returning as PG and later that he and Ish had common taste in women. Nonetheless, Dino was criticized for losing control of his team, acting as an assistant coach would, and not being a head coach by not benching his star players. (to his defense - James Johnson could when he wanted to simply dominate stretches of a game and then would disappear, much like he has done in the pros - big game a few nights ago against San Antonio, let's see what happens the next few games).
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This never happened. Jeff Teague played 3 games against Duke in his career. He scored 26, 11 and 28 on an average of 14 shots a game. He went 2-1 against Duke and the one loss he scored 28 points.

The 11 point 4-14 shooting game was the same one as the last second inbounds play.
 
oldmandeac said:
As to Bobby Knight, I have long maintained he was the victim of being the last media star coach left standing. Just as TV began to feature coaches' reactions to plays (to this day, how many shots of Rick Pitino do you see during the course of a Louisville game?) and making them a media focus, all of them left in mass either to the NBA or retirement. Except one - Bobby Knight. As such, he was hounded to do or say something interesting and he had the personality to give them what they want.

But, I witnesses Knight at his best. When down by over 20 at home at the half to Iowa, he returned to the court and grabbed the PA. Fans, who were lifeless and quiet (like a Wake game now I assume), stopped in the aisle to listen. He very colorfully berated the crowd for their lack of support for the team, who while playing awful, still deserved the cheers of the crowds. By the time he threw the microphone into the desk, the place was bedlam. You know the team had to hear it all and they responded by winning the game by 20. Yep, he could be viewed as an ass by doing this, but it served its purpose.

I also give credit to Coach Knight for his support for decades of Langdon Turner - a center on the 1980 NIT Champs and 1981 NCAA Champs team - who was a lot like James Johnson - brilliant at times and absolutely awful at others. He just didn't have the motivation and was constantly in the coach's doghouse as a means to motivate him. When he was paralyzed in an accident a few months after the NCAA win and before the NBA draft, Bobby Knight asked Red Auerbach for a favor - it was Turner's dream to be drafted into the NBA, and the Boston Celtics drafted him. Coach Knight subsequently established foundations and helped in some business endeavors with Turner.

Yep, he's an awful guy... just like you see him depicted in the media.
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Bob Knight did a lot of good both on and off the basketball court. He also thought he had free license to verbally and physically assault other people. You can believe both of those things at the same time. Most media coverage I have seen/read of Coach Knight does a pretty good job of showing both sides.
 
MBDeac08 said:
Of course comments were made about his coaching ability by comentators, but I don't qualify that as trashing someone. The comments about his character from some on the boards would qualify as trashing, as well as Wellman's insistence on character issues being the reason for a change. Commenting on his coaching ability is not trashing.
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Standard coaching criticisms aren't what I'm referring to, I'm referring to commentators stating things like Dino being in over his head and not knowing how to coach at all. The comments seemed unusual, especially odd given his W-L success but mirrored DinoOuter comments. They then jumped on the comments as proof others saw the same thing. I've never heard a coach get...criticized...like that with a winning record and having a #1 ranked team, have you?
 
BabyDeac75 said:
QFT.

There are currently, and have been the last three years, issues with players on Bz's teams. Serious stuff. Legal issues. Have they been publicly made available? No. Were similar things publicly aired to further an AD agenda a couple of years prior? You betcha.

Folks that keep trumpeting the "culture change" crap are either ill-informed or have ulterior motivation ... or both.

DBTH.
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Wow. Just wow.
 
pourdeac said:
Standard coaching criticisms aren't what I'm referring to, I'm referring to commentators stating things like Dino being in over his head and not knowing how to coach at all. The comments seemed unusual, especially odd given his W-L success but mirrored DinoOuter comments. They then jumped on the comments as proof others saw the same thing. I've never heard a coach get...criticized...like that with a winning record and having a #1 ranked team, have you?
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Yeah I don't remember any TV commentators saying that kind of stuff. Not denying it, just don't remember a lot of that. Of course I was at about every home game during that period as well because 61-31 is better than....
 
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