bobknightfan
Banhammer'd
NM
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About that "World's Best Healthcare System" the U.S. is supposed to have...
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Deacon923
Scooter Banks
Here are some very good pieces on the subject for further reading.
http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/what-makes-the-us-health-care-system-so-expensive-introduction/
http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/how-do-we-rate-the-quality-of-the-us-health-care-system-introduction/
http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/what-makes-the-us-health-care-system-so-expensive-introduction/
http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/how-do-we-rate-the-quality-of-the-us-health-care-system-introduction/
Deacon923
Scooter Banks
It's a pretty common statement among conservative talking heads and especially conservatives who are also doctors. They are quite fond of saying how horrible it would be if our country's health care system became similar to Canada's or Western Europe's. As far as I can tell, that would only be terrible for insurance companies, medical device manufacturers, and to some extent doctors - certainly not for patients.
2&2 Slider To Leyritz
Well-known member
I've heard plenty of people say we have the best doctors in the world, but never heard anyone say we have the best health care system.
Deacon923
Scooter Banks
:noidea: My conservative doctor brother just laid it on me last week.
It's semantics; talking heads may use the word "doctors" or "healthcare" and not the word "system" or whatever, but the clear implication and intent ever since the early 90s ("Hilarycare", remember?) is that American health care is "good" and that nasty "socialized" European healthcare is "bad" or "worse" than American healthcare. The further implication, and often express argument, is that "socializing" healthcare like the Euros will make it worse for everyone.
It's semantics; talking heads may use the word "doctors" or "healthcare" and not the word "system" or whatever, but the clear implication and intent ever since the early 90s ("Hilarycare", remember?) is that American health care is "good" and that nasty "socialized" European healthcare is "bad" or "worse" than American healthcare. The further implication, and often express argument, is that "socializing" healthcare like the Euros will make it worse for everyone.
Wakeforest22890
Snowpom
ChrisL68
Riley Skinner
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Depends on your values.
If you are liberal and your values are that everybody should have access to good healthcare, then no.
If you are conservative and your values are that the people who can afford it should have to access to the best healthcare, then yes.
If you are liberal and your values are that everybody should have access to good healthcare, then no.
If you are conservative and your values are that the people who can afford it should have to access to the best healthcare, then yes.
PhDeac
PM a mod to cement your internet status forever
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Is the US the best country to be rich and need healthcare?
Eh. It's just an extension of the "America fuck yeah" attitude people bring to everything that Americans vaguely care about. There are no metrics, just the idea that America is awesome and if you don't think so you're not a real American.
awaken
Well-known member
The US is certainly getting gouged from many directions, and distancing consumers from pricing displaces the gouging pain. As a country we are leading the way in research and pharmacology, and other countries are reaping benefits without paying at the rate Americans do for it. When Dr Atala perfects organ generation, won't that technology finds its way around the world? Same for the next new drug (at cheaper prices). We're subsidizing the world in healthcare innovation. Do we get credit for that? Should we do something about that, and if so, what?
That said, most people citing our "great" healthcare usually refer to our cancer survival rates:
... and then the cite medical tourism to get immediate care (likely reason for our leading cancer rates) and innovative care. I think this claim started when the US led the way in overcoming infectious diseases middle of last century (antibiotics, immunizations).
That said, most people citing our "great" healthcare usually refer to our cancer survival rates:
... and then the cite medical tourism to get immediate care (likely reason for our leading cancer rates) and innovative care. I think this claim started when the US led the way in overcoming infectious diseases middle of last century (antibiotics, immunizations).
meandmyuncleDeac
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Our system really sucks if you happen to be poor. But, I've always been for universal coverage, single-payer or whatever you want to call it. It blows my mind that some people don't see health coverage as a fundemental right.
myDeaconmyhand
First man to get a team of horses up Bear Mountain
You all have to forgive BKF for threads like these, he's a Democrat in fucking Randleman NC, home of the Richard Petty museum.
We do have the best "healthcare" in the world if you have insurance (or if you are foreign, can pay the $$).
The only reason someone leaves the US is to get healthcare cheaper (healthcare tourism to Central America/Brasil/India come to mind). No one in their right mind would say, "I'm going to go to Sweden (unless it is for Sex Change), to get some healthcare." However, any person from outside of the the US with $$ comes here for the best care. (Caveat: There are some places in the UK that cater to high $$ folks and provide comparable care to the US, same for Germany, but it is not available to the common folk.)
Most of the "best Healthcare system" polls/reviews are from the "most healthcare" is better than "best Healthcare" perspective.
The only reason someone leaves the US is to get healthcare cheaper (healthcare tourism to Central America/Brasil/India come to mind). No one in their right mind would say, "I'm going to go to Sweden (unless it is for Sex Change), to get some healthcare." However, any person from outside of the the US with $$ comes here for the best care. (Caveat: There are some places in the UK that cater to high $$ folks and provide comparable care to the US, same for Germany, but it is not available to the common folk.)
Most of the "best Healthcare system" polls/reviews are from the "most healthcare" is better than "best Healthcare" perspective.
2&2 Slider To Leyritz
Well-known member
Probably because you are making up your own definition and demanding that everyone acknowledge that same definition, when it is clearly not a universally accepted definition as evidenced by this thread.
Shorty
Boomer Boy
Roughly 85% of Americans have health insurance. Are you saying that only a small elite, wealthy group of those 85% have coverage that would pay for care provided by top specialists?
Deacon923
Scooter Banks
I guess it depends on what you mean. Blue Cross is not gonna fly me up to the mayo clinic for a second opinion. They are going to insist I get care in their network. That's pretty good in NC but maybe not so much if you live in area less dense with research hospitals. 85% of Americans do not get the same care as Steve Jobs or NFL athletes.
I am not sure that this line of discussion adds much. In all western countries, the 1% pay for and get extra special care on top of the public system. It's not like ceos in France just sit around with the plebes in the government hospital waiting rooms. It is quite possible to have elite care AND universal, public coverage, and the health stats prove it. Conservatives in the US claim its a binary choice but that is just a straw man.
What is not really arguable is that the US pays far more per capita for significantly poorer public health outcomes. You'd think fiscal conservatives would want to address that, since much of it comes from the taxpayer.
Shorty
Boomer Boy
Of course the quality of healthcare you receive is based on the quality of services available where you live. I've been treated by a specialist at Emory because I live in Atlanta. My point is that you don't have to be among the wealthy elite to take advantage of Emory hospital.
This is a good post, except that the Mayo clinic is in network
and that travel benefits are becoming more of the norm. But I digress....Id argue that the majority of americans have access to pretty good health care, better than many people get in many other countries. There are a lot of teachers, union workers, public sector employees, etc. who have access to incredible care at a very low cost to them. Do we use insurance responsibly? No. Is care delivered efficiently, no. Are we the healthiest? No. Do we incent providers efficiently, no. Does our tax system have the right incentives? No. Do we as consumers engage? No.
But, if you have insurance, this is the place to get sick. And its not for the elite. Its for the insured (ex. Medicaid). There are few places in the world that someone like Ted Kennedy gets care at Duke from the same provider as a person making $20,000/year. I
The shame of the system is really multifold...Our disregard for managing the care of the uninsured AND those on public assistance (Medicaid). The horribly inefficient way we pay docs (see Medicare). Insulating consumers from costs in making efficient decisions. Our chosen lifestyles.
Ive said it before and I'll say it again...Single payor would be a disaster in the IS based on the past 60 years of how we've delivered care.
Deacon923
Scooter Banks
CH, I respect your knowledge on insurance matters, but I take issue with the assertion that America is a great place to get sick, insured or not. Even among insured Americans, health outcomes are not as good and satisfaction with the system much lower than in peer countries. http://theincidentaleconomist.com/w...lity-of-the-us-health-care-system-conclusion/
Americans need to get their patriotic heads out of their asses and realize that plenty of other countries do healthcare a lot better than the US of A.
Americans need to get their patriotic heads out of their asses and realize that plenty of other countries do healthcare a lot better than the US of A.
I can assure you my head (and ass) are not influenced by blind patriotism on this issue. And agin, Im not saying we do it "better", just that our system is high quality once you are sick and insured...
I need to get you stuff to read other than the incidental economist