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At least 172 Palestinians killed, 1,280 injured, UN says 77% are civilians

Wakeforest22890 said:
No this is not what the agreement is. Israel wants Palestine to accept the borders that Israel proposes.

"Palestine won't accept our unilateral offer!!!!"

Oh geez I wonder why!!??
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This.

It's not that hard to try and get a grasp on the facts of the situation...
 
RChildress107 said:
That quote doesn't understand what the words disproportionate and intolerable mean.

If I throw 500 punches at Floyd Mayweather and land 1 or 2 by sheer luck and he responds by landing 50 straight strategically placed punches in a row would anyone call that fight or response proportionate?

And how is making a claim that the people of Gaza are the real victims (pretty uncontroversial seeing as how most of the people of Gaza are not responsible for the rockets being launched into Israel) intolerable while murdering 4 young boys playing soccer on the beach is a proportionate response?
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What?

You and your opponent are doing your level best to knock each other out. The fact that he's a pro and you are a novice has little to do with anything. Again, what would Hamas do if it had better weaponry?
 
I always ask this. What do you think the US response would be if a Mexican political organization lobbed a few thousand rockets into Southern California from the Baja? I am sure we would be very understanding that we took their land and have a very limited measured response.
 
RaleighDevil said:
What?

You and your opponent are doing your level best to knock each other out. The fact that he's a pro and you are a novice has little to do with anything. Again, what would Hamas do if it had better weaponry?
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You must be the guy who full court presses and sends shots into the second row in intramural coed basketball.

If things were different (Hamas having better weaponry) then things would be different. Not hard to understand.
 
89DeaconMike said:
I always ask this. What do you think the US response would be if a Mexican political organization lobbed a few thousand rockets into Southern California from the Baja? I am sure we would be very understanding that we took their land and have a very limited measured response.
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I'll answer that in 2180 when it might possibly be relevant (assuming that Israel gets peace on the borders it wants and gets rid of Iron Dome leaving them unprotected 166 years later).
 
Israel has invaded its neighbors lots of times in response to rocket strikes. Yet, the rocket strikes keep coming. The Israelis and everybody else knows that this invasion will not end rocket strikes either. On the other hand, both the rocket strikes and the invasions help to keep the atmosphere spoiled so that no peace process is allowed to grow. Peace would mean compromises, and certain elements in both camps don't want any compromises. They would rather have things as they are. So, the rockets and the disproportionalte responses and futile invasions will continue.
 
I'd say there at least three camps -Israel, Hamas and the poor Palestinians. This crap will continue because the guys lobbing missiles and bombs don't give a flying fuck about the Palestinians, who take almost all of the casualties.
 
89DeaconMike said:
I always ask this. What do you think the US response would be if a Mexican political organization lobbed a few thousand rockets into Southern California from the Baja? I am sure we would be very understanding that we took their land and have a very limited measured response.
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Complete non-sequitur. Again, this whole situation is based upon the 2000 years of strife.
 
RChildress107 said:
If I throw 500 punches at Floyd Mayweather and land 1 or 2 by sheer luck and he responds by landing 50 straight strategically placed punches in a row would anyone call that fight or response proportionate?
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No, I would simply call you a beat down dumbass. Disproportionate and intolerable would not cross my mind.
 
RChildress107 said:
That quote doesn't understand what the words disproportionate and intolerable mean.

If I throw 500 punches at Floyd Mayweather and land 1 or 2 by sheer luck and he responds by landing 50 straight strategically placed punches in a row would anyone call that fight or response proportionate?

And how is making a claim that the people of Gaza are the real victims (pretty uncontroversial seeing as how most of the people of Gaza are not responsible for the rockets being launched into Israel) intolerable while murdering 4 young boys playing soccer on the beach is a proportionate response?
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You couldn't get 500 punches off at Solange Knowles.

Money May? Child please.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
No this is not what the agreement is. Israel wants Palestine to accept the borders that Israel proposes.

"Palestine won't accept our unilateral offer!!!!"

Oh geez I wonder why!!??
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You are displaying your age. Palestine has NEVER been an independent state. Ever. So the fact they are being handed anything is pretty astounding to begin with.

While a very simple explanation, this pretty much nails it. The Muslim world wants Israel destroyed. They have never wanted peace.

 
They were already handed their own land in 1947 by the UN but lost it in a war - admittedly the fault of other Arab states as well as people living in the area. They have also been living there just as long as any of the Jewish people who were handed their own state at the same time. I know Palestine has never been an independent state insofar as being recognized by the international community but that's largely due to the influence of Israel and big brother America on the UN preventing it. The number of states who recognize the Palestinian State are massive and "of the 193 member states of the United Nations, 134 (69.4%) have recognized the State of Palestine as of 27 September 2013. Their total population is over 5.5 billion people, equaling 80 percent of the world's population."
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
They were already handed their own land in 1947 by the UN but lost it in a war - admittedly the fault of other Arab states as well as people living in the area.

SORT OF AN IMPORTANT FACT, RIGHT? I MEAN THEY ATTACKED THE VERY NEXT DAY.

They have also been living there just as long as any of the Jewish people who were handed their own state at the same time.

YES. INTERESTING THAT ONLY ONE SIDE ACCEPTED THE TERMS, RIGHT?

I know Palestine has never been an independent state insofar as being recognized by the international community but that's largely due to the influence of Israel and big brother America on the UN preventing it.

IT'S ALSO DOWN TO PALESTINE NOT ACCEPTING TERMS - FOR 70 FUCKING YEARS.

The number of states who recognize the Palestinian State are massive and "of the 193 member states of the United Nations, 134 (69.4%) have recognized the State of Palestine as of 27 September 2013. Their total population is over 5.5 billion people, equaling 80 percent of the world's population."

COOL. YET THEY ARE PRESENTLY RULED BY HAMAS - AN ORGANIZATION THAT USES ITS OWN CITIZENS AS HUMAN SHIELDS, DOESN'T BELIEVE IN DEMOCRACY AND HAS LAUNCHED MISSLES INTO ISRAEL ABOUT 1 OUT OF EVERY 3 DAYS IN 2014 WITH THE SPECIFIC INTENT TO KILL CIVILIANS.

Why otherwise bright people like you try to equivocate on this issue is beyond me.
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See above.
 
DeacMan said:
You are displaying your age. Palestine has NEVER been an independent state. Ever. So the fact they are being handed anything is pretty astounding to begin with.

While a very simple explanation, this pretty much nails it. The Muslim world wants Israel destroyed. They have never wanted peace.

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I would like to see the response video. That seems like my oldest child explaining why the entire fight was the entirely fault of the middle one. Notice and opportunity to be heard seems like a fair offering for the other party.
 
jhmd2000 said:
I would like to see the response video. That seems like my oldest child explaining why the entire fight was the entirely fault of the middle one. Notice and opportunity to be heard seems like a fair offering for the other party.
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Yeah, if your middle child is a raving fucking lunatic hell bent on killing innocent civilians for sport.
 
How does Hamas defend themselves and avoid having "human shields" in an area with such high population density?

Oh and what kind of assholes willingly kill women and children despite having technology perfectly capable of defense? If they know the likelihood of civilian deaths is high, stop bombing.

People who use human shields to rationalize killing civilians just don't get it. A dead member of Hamas isn't worth dead civilians and isn't going to make Israel any safer.
 
DeacMan said:
Yeah, if your middle child is a raving fucking lunatic hell bent on killing innocent civilians for sport.
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I mean, it is early but we are not ruling anything out.

P.S. I won't carry a drop of water for the very visible, outspoken, active and widely uncondemned minority* of Muslims who seem not to be troubled with an excuse to start ish with other people, but there is no way it is as straight forward as Praeger is saying (and quite genuinely, I like Dennis Praeger). I am disppointed in his RJ-esque tone in this one.

Israel suffers from common denominator-itis. Their version of events is that they are history's unluckiest neighbor. How can it always be the other guy's fault?

* Say many, on specious evidence.
 
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