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At least 172 Palestinians killed, 1,280 injured, UN says 77% are civilians

PhDeac said:
How does Hamas defend themselves and avoid having "human shields" in an area with such high population density?

Oh and what kind of assholes willingly kill women and children despite having technology perfectly capable of defense? If they know the likelihood of civilian deaths is high, stop bombing.

People who use human shields to rationalize killing civilians just don't get it. A dead member of Hamas isn't worth dead civilians and isn't going to make Israel any safer.
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All Hamas has to do is stop lobbing missiles into Israel. Do that and the civilians are safe.
 
WFU71 said:
All Hamas has to do is stop lobbing missiles into Israel. Do that and the civilians are safe.
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You realize that Hamas only really coalesced into a political entity in the early 90s, right? And your second sentence is just not true. Bebe and co. were looking for an excuse to bomb the shit out of Gaza and they finally found the opportunity.

Hamas sucks, don't get me wrong. But blaming this situation solely on Hamas shows a remarkable ignorance about the history of the region.
 
If this article is any indication, then I can see some serious international criticism of Israel's ground offensive.

The US called on Israel to restrict itself to a "precise operation" on the ground in Gaza while stressing its right to defend itself against rocket attacks.

In a statement late on Thursday, the state department said Netanyahu had telephoned the US secretary of state, John Kerry, to explain his decision "to launch an operation to target the threat of further terrorist infiltration through tunnels into Israel".

It continued: "The secretary reaffirmed our strong support for Israel's right to defend itself against terrorist threats emanating from tunnels into Israel and expressed our view that this should be a precise operation to target tunnels, as described in a statement from the Israel Defence Forces."

It said Kerry emphasised the need to "avoid further escalation and to restore the 2012 ceasefire as soon as possible".

The UN secretary general, Ban Ki-moon, accused Israel of ignoring calls for restraint. "I regret that despite my repeated urgings, and those of many regional and world leaders together, an already dangerous conflict has now escalated even further," he said.
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Whatever it takes, as long as the killing, brutality, and terror stop.

And, to RJ, ELC, Nonny, and any of the other #IsraelIn crowd, how do you feel about the bold:

Hamas is demanding an end to the seven-year blockade of Gaza by both Israel and Egypt, as well as the release of prisoners held by Israel.
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WFU71 said:
All Hamas has to do is stop lobbing missiles into Israel. Do that and the civilians are safe.
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Safe to be treated like animals by a bunch of Jews with no sense of self-awareness about the irony of this behavior.
 
Strickland33 said:
You realize that Hamas only really coalesced into a political entity in the early 90s, right? And your second sentence is just not true. Bebe and co. were looking for an excuse to bomb the shit out of Gaza and they finally found the opportunity.

Hamas sucks, don't get me wrong. But blaming this situation solely on Hamas shows a remarkable ignorance about the history of the region.
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Okay, I think I am close on this one. Let me check my OGB Lib Bingo card...

Do we have condescension? YES!!! Twice, in this case, A-1: "You realize...., right?" and D-4, "...remarkable ignorance..."

Do we have an adverb-laden sweeping refutation of someone else's opinion? YES!!!! A-2 "...just not true...."

Do we have a fanslation of someone else's (usually on the right) motives? Woo-hooo! We're rolling, baby. A-3 "Bebe and Co. were looking for an excuse...."

Do we have the homerism insulation which pays obligatory, passing note to obvious, inconvenient facts (that themselves often serve as ample provocation for the recently mischaracterized actions) which is promptly abandoned so that blatant homerism may be rejoined in due course? Of course we do! "C-1: ...don't get me wrong."

So do we have OGB Lib Bingo or not?



Oh, I'm sorry. While clinging true to form for most OGB Liberal post templates, this particular post failed to a) dismiss a corroborated and widely-accepted fact simply because it was reported on Fox News and b) blame either Bush (before 2010 or Congress afterwards) for administrative inaction or policy failure. Better luck next time, contestants! If you're still mad about your opinion of the Iraq War, Nixon Administration or are just plan crazy for Indiana basketball, please visit our website to download the home game...
 
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Strickland33 said:
You realize that Hamas only really coalesced into a political entity in the early 90s, right? And your second sentence is just not true. Bebe and co. were looking for an excuse to bomb the shit out of Gaza and they finally found the opportunity.

Hamas sucks, don't get me wrong. But blaming this situation solely on Hamas shows a remarkable ignorance about the history of the region.
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What BS response. Explain to me how Bebe and company were looking for excuse to bomb Gaza? How does my statement inferring that the bombing is caused by the missile attacks lead you to the ridiculous conclusion that I am blaming the situation solely on Hamas (assuming you're calling the "situation" the state of affairs between the Palestinians and Israelis)?
 
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i can't imagine how any of us would act if caged in like an animal, living right on top of each other. it's weird that pisses the palestinians off.
 
Milhouse said:
i can't imagine how any of us would act if caged in like an animal, living right on top of each other. it's weird that pisses the palestinians off.
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antisemitenbc1.jpg
 
Milhouse said:
i can't imagine how any of us would act if caged in like an animal, living right on top of each other. it's weird that pisses the palestinians off.
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I agree. OTOH, how would any of us act if the guys next to us were intent on the destruction of our country and had spent several decades figuring how to blow us up with bombs on busses and lobbing missiles at is?

It cuts both ways and is why I'm pessimistic about any honorable way out of this shit. The young adults in the area are becoming more hardened in their animosity towards "the other side".
 
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Strickland33 said:
If this article is any indication, then I can see some serious international criticism of Israel's ground offensive.




Whatever it takes, as long as the killing, brutality, and terror stop.

And, to RJ, ELC, Nonny, and any of the other #IsraelIn crowd, how do you feel about the bold:
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About that blockade:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/a...e-israeli-blockade-led-to-hamas-rockets-myth/

"They do not know that in March 2014, Israel intercepted an Iranian ship, one of several intercepted by Israel, with a cargo of weapons to Hamas in Gaza, including advanced M-302 surface-to-surface missiles, showing again why the naval blockade is necessary."
 
A voice of reason?
http://www.dissentmagazine.org/blog/jerusalem-riots-israel-palestine

"There is a desperate need for visionaries in this part of the world today. Perhaps the grieving parents of the murdered children can help to lift the blinders of wishful thinking and reset the stage for a pragmatic solution to the Israeli–Palestinian wars. So far, statements coming from the mourning families have been generous in spirit. If the politicians—on both sides—don’t rise to the occasion, then there is tragically no doubt that there will be more deaths and that Jerusalem, the holy of holies, will writhe in more blood born from the fanatics who won’t budge and the politicians who abet them."
 
jhmd2000 said:
Okay, I think I am close on this one. Let me check my OGB Lib Bingo card...

Do we have condescension? YES!!! Twice, in this case, A-1: "You realize...., right?" and D-4, "...remarkable ignorance..."

Do we have an adverb-laden sweeping refutation of someone else's opinion? YES!!!! A-2 "...just not true...."

Do we have a fanslation of someone else's (usually on the right) motives? Woo-hooo! We're rolling, baby. A-3 "Bebe and Co. were looking for an excuse...."

Do we have the homerism insulation which pays obligatory, passing note to obvious, inconvenient facts (that themselves often serve as ample provocation for the recently mischaracterized actions) which is promptly abandoned so that blatant homerism may be rejoined in due course? Of course we do! "C-1: ...don't get me wrong."

So do we have OGB Lib Bingo or not?



Oh, I'm sorry. While clinging true to form for most OGB Liberal post templates, this particular post failed to a) dismiss a corroborated and widely-accepted fact simply because it was reported on Fox News and b) blame either Bush (before 2010 or Congress afterwards) for administrative inaction or policy failure. Better luck next time, contestants! If you're still mad about your opinion of the Iraq War, Nixon Administration or are just plan crazy for Indiana basketball, please visit our website to download the home game...
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Do you have any thoughts as to the content? It's always fun to have you talk about condescension.
 
PhDeac said:
How does Hamas defend themselves and avoid having "human shields" in an area with such high population density?

Oh and what kind of assholes willingly kill women and children despite having technology perfectly capable of defense? If they know the likelihood of civilian deaths is high, stop bombing.

People who use human shields to rationalize killing civilians just don't get it. A dead member of Hamas isn't worth dead civilians and isn't going to make Israel any safer.
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You really are not this dumb. Hamas merely has to stop lobbing missiles and suicide donkeys at the Israelis and they will not have to worry about civilians getting hurt because they choose to hide their missiles and other military equipment in UN sponsored schools, hospitals, etc.

Of course when you have a charter that calls for the Islamist occupation of every inch of Israel and proclaims Jews, Christians and Muslims can only peacefully co-exist under Muslim rule - well, that makes lobbing missiles indiscriminately something that is hard to resist.

Really, we have people here defending Hamas? LOL.
 
you read ph's post and came to the conclusion that he is defending hamas?

really? LOL.
 
He's dumb enough to suggest Hamas has to "defend" itself, right? Here's an idea. Quit launching fucking missiles at civilians when you've not been attacked. Quit sending suicide bombers into Israel to kill civilians. But, given their charter calls for the destruction of the country, we all know that won't happen, right?
 
DeacMan said:
He's dumb enough to suggest Hamas has to "defend" itself, right? Here's an idea. Quit launching fucking missiles at civilians when you've not been attacked. Quit sending suicide bombers into Israel to kill civilians. But, given their charter calls for the destruction of the country, we all know that won't happen, right?
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The tactics of Israel push the Palestinians into the arms of Hamas. What motivation is there to embrace less-extreme methods or politics? Israel hasn't shown any willingness to engage the Palestinian leadership in the West Bank or "reward" the Palestinians in Gaza if they turn on Hamas. Hamas on the other hand provides necessary governance and humanitarian support to people who have no one else to turn to. I feel like I am taking crazy pills when I read posts by people apparently incapable of appreciating nuance.
 
Well said.

It blows my mind that there are people who honestly believe the people getting killed are the sole aggressors and not defending themselves.

If Israel wanted to stop civilian deaths, they would stop killing civilians and let the Iron Dome do it's job. Pretty sure the beaches in Tel Aviv were still busy today.
 
PhDeac said:
Well said.

It blows my mind that there are people who honestly believe the people getting killed are the sole aggressors and not defending themselves.

If Israel wanted to stop civilian deaths, they would stop killing civilians and let the Iron Dome do it's job. Pretty sure the beaches in Tel Aviv were still busy today.
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Uh....wait, what? "The Iron Dome" is not a fool-proof system. To my understanding, they do not lower a reinforced, welded, riveted tri-clad steel helmet over the entire country that bottle rockets bounce off of. I am thinking it might be more a figure of speech.

If you shoot rocket after rocket into civilian areas, to some degree you assume the risk of the response selected by the target of your aggression. Israel is covered in plenty of its own mud in this fight, but to argue that a country has a duty to just sit back and absorb blows and not interdict the attacks is insane.
 
Iron Dome has worked very well so far.

I'm fine if they use intelligence and technology and troops on the ground to capture whoever is shooting rockets. That's fine. That's defense. Knowing launching missiles into civilian areas is offense.
 
PhDeac said:
Iron Dome has worked very well so far.

I'm fine if they use intelligence and technology and troops on the ground to capture whoever is shooting rockets. That's fine. That's defense. Knowing launching missiles into civilian areas is offense.
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Respectfully disagree. As a human being, I cannot ask someone to sit back and absorb missile attacks issued by a terror group that intentionally operates out of civilian areas (by the way, that actually is a war crime. A real one.). If Israel just takes it, the attacks will never stop. They could be handling it much, much better (that is, take their evidence to the world community, rather than just roll smoke and ask us to take their word for it), but I do not fault them for attacking the missile batteries. To allow Hamas to commit war crimes against both people blesses that conduct by inaction.
 
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