Official 2014 Ryder Cup Thread

qcdeac said:

No idea who a good pairing with Walker would be. Shame Dustin is suspended or he could have paired with Walker.

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I thought 3somes were illegal in this competition.

Nice cville. If 3somes were allowed, Mrs. Walker would definitely play alternate money shot.

I see team USA as:

A-Team: Fowler, Bubba, Furyk, Kuchar, Michelson

C-Team: Reed, Mahan, Walker, Webb, Keegan

Tossups: Spieth, Johnson

I'd play the A guys in every match possible and never pair a tossup or C player with any non A-player. Walker hasn't had a top 5 in his last 20 starts (February). Zach Johnson's been struggling as well, but at least he has some experience.

Start with an A and pick a partner who fits them. Ricky and Webb, Bubba and Keegan, Furyk and Spieth, Kuchar and Mahan - then also use the Mickelson/Keegan pairing but Phil is probably the one A guy you don't send out as much as the rest of the A guys because he's old and has arthritis and all that.

I'd play Reed and Walker as little as possible, with Mahan and Johnson ranking just slightly above them.

Anyone can get hot at this level of golf, so you have to be able to switch gears if a guy starts lighting it up, but to me this team has a serious dividing line between our world-class players who are playing well at the moment and everyone else.

DCDeac said:

I see team USA as:

A-Team: Fowler, Bubba, Furyk, Kuchar, Michelson

C-Team: Reed, Mahan, Walker, Webb, Keegan

Tossups: Spieth, Johnson

I'd play the A guys in every match possible and never pair a tossup or C player with any non A-player. Walker hasn't had a top 5 in his last 20 starts (February). Zach Johnson's been struggling as well, but at least he has some experience.

Start with an A and pick a partner who fits them. Ricky and Webb, Bubba and Keegan, Furyk and Spieth, Kuchar and Mahan - then also use the Mickelson/Keegan pairing but Phil is probably the one A guy you don't send out as much as the rest of the A guys because he's old and has arthritis and all that.

I'd play Reed and Walker as little as possible, with Mahan and Johnson ranking just slightly above them.

Anyone can get hot at this level of golf, so you have to be able to switch gears if a guy starts lighting it up, but to me this team has a serious dividing line between our world-class players who are playing well at the moment and everyone else.

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I'm not sure I could disagree any more with your take. Interesting.

I put a lot less stock in what you have been doing leading into the RC. To me, it is just such a different event that you really have no idea who will be ready to answer the bell until Friday. I like the gutsy players like ZJ and Reed. Give me guys who grind their ass off (ZJ) and guys who aren't afraid of the moment (Reed).

I'd keep Webb and Bubba out of Alt Shot personally.

I hope Reed gets a shot on Friday. I could definitely see him kicking ass this week, despite his rollercoaster form of late. If he sucks, hold him out until Sunday.

Tin Cup said:

I'm not sure I could disagree any more with your take. Interesting.

I put a lot less stock in what you have been doing leading into the RC. To me, it is just such a different event that you really have no idea who will be ready to answer the bell until Friday. I like the gutsy players like ZJ and Reed. Give me guys who grind their ass off (ZJ) and guys who aren't afraid of the moment (Reed).

I'd keep Webb and Bubba out of Alt Shot personally.

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Yeah, I'm very much a believer in riding the hot hand in golf. I'd trade Horschel for Walker in a heartbeat today. You have 3 guys in Reed, Walker, and Zach who last won golf tournaments in February, early March, and January respectively. The Ryder Cup is obviously a uniquely inspiring venue, and as I said, you never know when someone's going to catch fire for a round or two at this level. But what about Reed is gutsy? That he has the guts to declare himself a top 5 player in the world then back it up by missing the cut in the Masters, the Players, the Open, and not cracking the top 30 in the US Open or the PGA? Who in my A list do you favor him over right now?

I don't mean to sound argumentative - I find Ryder Cup strategy to be pretty fascinating and appreciate all takes on it. But "good" pairings go out and lose to "bad" pairings all the time - I think captain strategy on the whole is overrated as long as you don't do something asinine like pairing together guys who obviously don't get along (the Tiger and Phil debacle) or running a player back out for 36 when they're clearly toast.

DCDeac said:

Yeah, I'm very much a believer in riding the hot hand in golf. I'd trade Horschel for Walker in a heartbeat today. You have 3 guys in Reed, Walker, and Zach who last won golf tournaments in February, early March, and January respectively. The Ryder Cup is obviously a uniquely inspiring venue, and as I said, you never know when someone's going to catch fire for a round or two at this level. But what about Reed is gutsy? That he has the guts to declare himself a top 5 player in the world then back it up by missing the cut in the Masters, the Players, the Open, and not cracking the top 30 in the US Open or the PGA? Who in my A list do you favor him over right now?

I don't mean to sound argumentative - I find Ryder Cup strategy to be pretty fascinating and appreciate all takes on it. But "good" pairings go out and lose to "bad" pairings all the time - I think captain strategy on the whole is overrated as long as you don't do something asinine like pairing together guys who obviously don't get along (the Tiger and Phil debacle) or running a player back out for 36 when they're clearly toast.

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Agree that captain strategy is really overrated as well. I'd take Horschel over just about anyone, but not just because of what he just did but based on personality. The RC is as close to being "normal" athletes as these players get, so I want guys that thrive on the emotion and environment, which clearly Horschel does.

Call it a gut feeling on Reed, I just think he will do well in this setting. If not, I'll gladly be back to take my lumps.

It's really damn hard to be a nice guy and a great Ryder Cup player. I want guys that are cocky, emotional and not afraid of the moment.

I'd like to see Bubba against McIlroy in singles. He's one of the only guys who can hit shots crazy enough to get his attention, and McIlroy hasn't played all that well when paired with him recently.

Would also love to see a Fowler/Sergio matchup. Let Kuchar and Furyk play some lower drama matches where steady play will be favored.

I really wonder how much of a toll the FedEx race will take on the guys that played in it. After McIlroy lost to Horschel, he couldn't have sounded more excited to ditch his golf clubs and not touch them again until the Ryder Cup. I think it might be hard for those guys to regain focus after such a grueling month.

DCDeac said:

I'd like to see Bubba against McIlroy in singles. He's one of the only guys who can hit shots crazy enough to get his attention, and McIlroy hasn't played all that well when paired with him recently.

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Makes as much sense as anything else. If you get good Bubba, he can make a lot of birdies and stick with McIlroy. And if you get bad Bubba, you may as well let McIlroy destroy him 6 and 5 rather than let McIlroy take down 1 of our hot guys.

Tin Cup said:

Call it a gut feeling on Reed, I just think he will do well in this setting. If not, I'll gladly be back to take my lumps.
It's really damn hard to be a nice guy and a great Ryder Cup player. I want guys that are cocky, emotional and not afraid of the moment.

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I've mentioned a few other times on this thread that I am high on Reed too. He played like shit after the WGC win in March. After shooting 69 at Arnie's event Round 1, he went 21 straight rounds without breaking 70. He has played OK since then, but he has had some blow up rounds which scare me.

I think the attitude Tin Cup describes has helped Reed in past match play events. US am semifinalist, 6-0 in match play in the NCAA Tournament (big reason why Augusta St won back-to-back NCAA titles). His senior year (way back in 2011), he thumped then US Am champ Peter Uilhein on Uilhein's home course 8 & 7 in the semis and beat Harris English 2-up in the finals. Reed transferred from UGA so you know playing UGA in the NCAA finals had to be huge for him.

Liquid Karma said:

Pretty good. Now which one of those do you throw out against the inevitable McIlroy/McDowell pairing?

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Aren't the Ryder Cup pairings a blind draw? So you really don't know when McIlroy/McDowell will be going out (unless you think the odds are good that they go off 1st or last in that first morning session, and then guess going forward based on where they started).

DCDeac said:

I see team USA as:

A-Team: Fowler, Bubba, Furyk, Kuchar, Michelson

C-Team: Reed, Mahan, Walker, Webb, Keegan

Tossups: Spieth, Johnson

I'd play the A guys in every match possible and never pair a tossup or C player with any non A-player. Walker hasn't had a top 5 in his last 20 starts (February). Zach Johnson's been struggling as well, but at least he has some experience.

Start with an A and pick a partner who fits them. Ricky and Webb, Bubba and Keegan, Furyk and Spieth, Kuchar and Mahan - then also use the Mickelson/Keegan pairing but Phil is probably the one A guy you don't send out as much as the rest of the A guys because he's old and has arthritis and all that.

I'd play Reed and Walker as little as possible, with Mahan and Johnson ranking just slightly above them.

Anyone can get hot at this level of golf, so you have to be able to switch gears if a guy starts lighting it up, but to me this team has a serious dividing line between our world-class players who are playing well at the moment and everyone else.

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I agree except for Mickelson as an "A" given his 2014 season (one top ten) and his Ryder Cup record (18-14-6).

Mickelson has two 2nds and a win in his last 8 majors. One of those 2nds was a month ago at the PGA. He's still an A player whenever he tees it up in my book, particularly in match play where one driver swing can't kill you. I just wouldn't play him twice in one day.

DCDeac said:

Mickelson has two 2nds and a win in his last 8 majors. One of those 2nds was a month ago at the PGA. He's still an A player whenever he tees it up in my book, particularly in match play where one driver swing can't kill you. I just wouldn't play him twice in one day.

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I hope you're right. His only 2014 appearance that would make me think you are is the PGA last month. His Tour Championship events were terrible. He is not a hot player right now. I hope he turns it around quickly.

I'd be curious what the correlation is between form going in vs RC results. Obviously with match play, you can play well and lose (or vice versa) so it's not the easiest of comparisons.

The very simple answer to all of this is that the best putting team wins, period.

Friday & Saturday Schedule
Times are local. Eastern is 5 hours behind.








Sunday Schedule

Gates open at 6:30 every morning....5 hours before 1st Sunday tee time! 1 hour before 1st tee time on Friday & Saturday.

Singles (12-minute intervals)
11.36
11.48
12.00
12.12
12.24
12.36
12.48
13.00
13.12
13.24
13.36
13.48

DCDeac said:

Yeah, I'm very much a believer in riding the hot hand in golf. I'd trade Horschel for Walker in a heartbeat today. You have 3 guys in Reed, Walker, and Zach who last won golf tournaments in February, early March, and January respectively. The Ryder Cup is obviously a uniquely inspiring venue, and as I said, you never know when someone's going to catch fire for a round or two at this level. But what about Reed is gutsy? That he has the guts to declare himself a top 5 player in the world then back it up by missing the cut in the Masters, the Players, the Open, and not cracking the top 30 in the US Open or the PGA? Who in my A list do you favor him over right now?

I don't mean to sound argumentative - I find Ryder Cup strategy to be pretty fascinating and appreciate all takes on it. But "good" pairings go out and lose to "bad" pairings all the time - I think captain strategy on the whole is overrated as long as you don't do something asinine like pairing together guys who obviously don't get along (the Tiger and Phil debacle) or running a player back out for 36 when they're clearly toast.

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Your dismissal of Walker is puzzling. He has 10 top 10's and 3 wins this year, and was one of only a handful of players to make the cut in all 4 majors (and he finished top 10 in 3 of them). Has he won recently? No, but he's been consistently good all year long. Horschel is literally the only player I would sub over him right now, but that's because he might be the hottest player in the world right now.

3 of your A guys haven't carded a win this entire season. Walker has 3.

Statistically Walker is noticeably ahead of Fowler in pretty much any category you can name, except that Fowler finished a few spots higher in the Masters, US Open and PGA (Walker finished T26 at the Open had a nice T6 in the 5th major).
He's a better ball striker, putter, and scores better.
He scores better on par 3's par 4's and par 5's.
Fowler was certainly closer to winning in the majors, but has been more inconsistent over the course of the season (7 missed cuts to 4).

And it's not like Fowler has some epic Ryder Cup history to point to. He played 4 fantastic holes in 2010 to square with McIlroy, but aside from that he was basically a dud.

Do I think Walker is going to have a better Ryder Cup than Fowler? Not necessarily because Fowler has shown an ability to rise to big occasions this year. I'm just trying to compare and contrast your classification of 2 players. One player hasn't won in a couple years but has been really close in the biggest events. The other won 3 times this season and had a very impressive record in the same big events, but is considered a significantly lesser player? Walker has the substance that people were asking of Fowler prior to his run in the majors this season.

Walker is WAY better than people give him credit for. That said, Walker has almost zero match play history to speak of.

In contrast to Walker, for example, Patrick Reed has a stellar match play record in his past. Same with Fowler, Spieth and Mahan.

I also don't mean to be argumentative. I love talking about this stuff with other people who actually care!

I'm up for any arguments that give the US a chance at this event.

Walker has great stats and results over the last 12 months. My biggest "problem" with him is that I never saw him threaten a leaderboard in those big events.
PGA: 65 (-6) on Sunday to T7 (-11).
US Open: 69 (-1) on Sunday to T9 (+2).
Players: 65 (-7) on Sunday to T6 (-9).
Masters: 70 (-2) on Sunday to finish T8 (E).

That is great playing in big events on Sunday, but I am curious how he would played had he started those Sundays T2 instead of T20.

Personally I would hold him out of alternate shot on Friday. I'd like to see everyone on our team play Friday: Assuming alt shot is 1st, sit Webb, Bubba, Walker and Reed in morning. Sit Zach, Mahan, Spieth and either Phil/Furyk (age) or Kuchar (health) for fourball. Of course whoever sits in the afternoon could change depending on the morning round.

I'd be shocked if it's not fourball first on Friday morning.