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Thread: F is for Fascism (Ferguson MO)

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdoublezero View Post
    Dude, if you just read the police report or any reputable summary of the police report, you'd know that the police say he took a case of swishers and that there was video of the incident from the store. Just save yourself some grief.
    The video the PD released did not show him taking a case. It clearly showed the thief taking a handful of cigar packages. The fact this PD put these two bits of info out together shows their reports are suspect at best.

    The Chief of Police saying he has been there 4-6 years yet had no idea there was mistrust between the black community and the police again shows what he or his staff puts out as "facts" are dubious at best.

    EDIT: The person who was with Brown at the convenience store and when Brown was shot told MSNBC Brown did steal A PACK or TWO to of Cigarillos. He said nothing about a case of the product.
    Last edited by RJKarl; 08-15-2014 at 03:03 PM.

  2. #142
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    Trial by cop. Great.

  3. #143
    lol...there was a St Louis radio talk show dude on fox that said the reason the police did not release this info sooner is because they where too busy dealing with the riot. Hahahaha

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by THE DEUCE View Post
    1 week to announce this is beyond unfathomable!! The officer would have claimed to the high heavens of the reason he was pulled over!
    Unless he was scared for his safety?

    This whole thing is weird. And if no reliable witness accounts come out then it's going to be a he-said/he-said and it will end with no charges.


    I don't see how it ended with the kid getting shot, but then again, if a guy is going to just go up in a convenience store and grab a case of cigars and shove the clerk and not even care, somehow I doubt he's gonna just stand in front of a cop with his arms up.

    But that is biased against criminals I guess.

    Really hope some kind of evidence comes out, but as it stands now it looks like a young white cop got trigger happy with a young black kid and there won't be anything anyone can do unfortunately.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by RJKarl View Post
    The video the PD released did not show him taking a case. It clearly showed the thief taking a handful of cigar packages. The fact this PD put these two bits of info out together shows their reports are suspect at best.
    It's clear that you didn't read the report or anything in the report. Just read an article before arguing with people. This isn't new advice. Remember what Irish taught you?

    Quote Originally Posted by RJKarl View Post
    The Chief of Police saying he has been there 4-6 years yet had no idea there was mistrust between the black community and the police again shows what he or his staff puts out as "facts" are dubious at best.
    I'm not sure it necessarily means that the allegations in a police report which will be intensely scrutinized by federal investigators and the international media are dubious.

    What is clear is that over the past two days the state of Missouri brought in some big-league crisis management. Releasing details about the incident at the store before any real explanation of what happened before the shooting is clearly tactical.

  6. #146
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    The police report is of no consequence to me at this point. If it said today was Friday, I'd have to check with other sources. Their actions thus far show nothing they say should be taken on face value.

    The Police Chief is now saying the robbery had NOTHING to do with Brown being stopped. Thus giving out the information about the robbery at the same time is only to harm Brown's character after the fact.

    P.S. Irish taught me nothing. But it is a typical position for you to take.

  7. #147
    Doesn't matter if the dude stole one cigar, a case of cigars, or murdered Mother Theresa. Doesn't even matter whether he shoved or attacked the police officer. Police still should not shoot a man down while he's running away much less while he's trying to surrender and begging for his life. That's the issue here. Not how many stupid cigars he did or did not steal.

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deacon923 View Post
    Doesn't matter if the dude stole one cigar, a case of cigars, or murdered Mother Theresa. Doesn't even matter whether he shoved or attacked the police officer. Police still should not shoot a man down while he's running away much less while he's trying to surrender and begging for his life. That's the issue here. Not how many stupid cigars he did or did not steal.
    BINGO!

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJKarl View Post
    The police report is of no consequence to me at this point. If it said today was Friday, I'd have to check with other sources. Their actions thus far show nothing they say should be taken on face value.

    The Police Chief is now saying the robbery had NOTHING to do with Brown being stopped. Thus giving out the information about the robbery at the same time is only to harm Brown's character after the fact.
    Or it could give insight into the kid's general outlook toward other people?

    I agree though that I don't think the cop knew anything about the robbery when he stopped them, but I still think the video serves a purpose.

    It's no different than stories coming out about the Ferguson police and their previous wrongdoings.

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deacon923 View Post
    Doesn't matter if the dude stole one cigar, a case of cigars, or murdered Mother Theresa. Doesn't even matter whether he shoved or attacked the police officer. Police still should not shoot a man down while he's running away much less while he's trying to surrender and begging for his life. That's the issue here. Not how many stupid cigars he did or did not steal.
    All of those things are confirmed to have happened?

  11. #151
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    Bottom line, a tazer instead of his sidearm and this is all a much tamer story.

  12. #152
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    The press is raking the Chief over the coals right now about releasing the tape at the same time as naming the officer. The Chief reiterated that the stop of Brown had nothing to do with the robbery. He said it at least four times on a national feed.

    Shooting an unarmed person in the back cannot be considered self-defense for a policeman.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by RJKarl View Post
    The press is raking the Chief over the coals right now about releasing the tape at the same time as naming the officer. The Chief reiterated that the stop of Brown had nothing to do with the robbery. He said it at least four times on a national feed.

    Shooting an unarmed person in the back cannot be considered self-defense for a policeman.
    Yeah, this Chief is a disaster. No chance he keeps his job.

  14. #154
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    So:

    Brown steals from a convenience store and assaults the clerk. Cop responds and pulls up to Brown and friend. According to the friend, the cop just tells them to "get the fuck off the sidewalk"? That makes zero sense since he is responding to a robbery and the suspect is right in front of him. I'm to believe that he walked up, pulled his gun and plugged the guy multiple times? How were they wrestling in the car?

    I generally hate cops but this defense really makes no sense. Its tragic that the kid got shot and died over a couple of f'ing cigars but Brown has clearly demonstrated aggression by assaulting and robbing the store 10 mins earlier. All of the sudden he is some innocent kid that gets shot for raising his hands and agreeing to being questioned/arrested? Was he resisting arrest? Could you fault a cop fearing for his life if he were to lose his weapon to someone that had just committed a robbery?

    Sadly, we may never know the truth. I can't blame people for being pissed off at the police force. They constantly abuse their power. Just not sure this is the case where you put all your chips in against them.

  15. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by JManslow View Post
    Yeah, this Chief is a disaster. No chance he keeps his job.
    I hope you are right....

    Just to be clear the Chief of Police has stated Officer Wilson's stop of Brown had NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ROBBERY.
    Last edited by RJKarl; 08-15-2014 at 03:31 PM.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Stan Gable View Post
    So:

    Brown steals from a convenience store and assaults the clerk. Cop responds and pulls up to Brown and friend. According to the friend, the cop just tells them to "get the fuck off the sidewalk"? That makes zero sense since he is responding to a robbery and the suspect is right in front of him. I'm to believe that he walked up, pulled his gun and plugged the guy multiple times? How were they wrestling in the car?

    I generally hate cops but this defense really makes no sense. Its tragic that the kid got shot and died over a couple of f'ing cigars but Brown has clearly demonstrated aggression by assaulting and robbing the store 10 mins earlier. All of the sudden he is some innocent kid that gets shot for raising his hands and agreeing to being questioned/arrested? Was he resisting arrest? Could you fault a cop fearing for his life if he were to lose his weapon to someone that had just committed a robbery?

    Sadly, we may never know the truth. I can't blame people for being pissed off at the police force. They constantly abuse their power. Just not sure this is the case where you put all your chips in against them.

    Officer was not responding to robbery...just confirmed by police press conference.

  17. #157
    The current narrative is very confused. But most of the narratives seem to agree that there was some sort of struggle between Brown and the officer, Brown then fled, possibly before being shot, was shot while fleeing, attempted to surrender, and was shot several more times with his hands in the air. From photos of the scene, his body was some distance from the cruiser, giving support to the narrative that he was fleeing. If the Ferguson PD had decent evidence to contravene that narrative, don't you think they would have released it by now?

    Police officers have a right to defend themselves, but the right to use deadly force ends when the subject is attempting to flee, and CERTAINLY when the subject is surrendering. Robbing a store and being aggressive toward a cop does not equal forfeiting your right to due process and life.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Deacon923 View Post
    The current narrative is very confused. But most of the narratives seem to agree that there was some sort of struggle between Brown and the officer, Brown then fled, possibly before being shot, was shot while fleeing, attempted to surrender, and was shot several more times with his hands in the air. From photos of the scene, his body was some distance from the cruiser, giving support to the narrative that he was fleeing. If the Ferguson PD had decent evidence to contravene that narrative, don't you think they would have released it by now?

    Police officers have a right to defend themselves, but the right to use deadly force ends when the subject is attempting to flee, and CERTAINLY when the subject is surrendering. Robbing a store and being aggressive toward a cop does not equal forfeiting your right to due process and life.
    I think the bolded is all that is agreed upon. It then widely diverges between Brown being shot in the car, to him being shot multiple time 35 yards away while he had his hands up in the air.

  19. #159
    FERGUSON, Mo. (AP) - The friend who was with Michael Brown when he was shot and killed by a police officer near St. Louis over the weekend is reportedly confirming that he and Brown had taken part in the theft of cigars from a convenience store that day.

    That word comes from the attorney for Dorian Johnson, speaking to MSNBC. Police in Ferguson had earlier announced that Brown was suspected of taking cigars from the convenience store in what was described as a "strong-arm robbery."

    Brown's family is accusing police of trying to draw attention away from the shooting.

    http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local...bery/14118769/

  20. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJKarl View Post
    I hope you are right....

    Just to be clear the Chief of Police has stated Officer Wilson's stop of Brown had NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ROBBERY.
    Is it possible he stopped them to tell them to get out of the street, and then while talking to them heard the description of the robbery suspects?


    And regardless of whether the cop knew about the robbery, if it was Brown and his buddy, THEY knew about the robbery, and would have no way of knowing if the cop knew. It would make sense that their reactions to the cop would change then.

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