• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

F is for Fascism (Ferguson MO)

From Bernie's speech on criminal justice reform this weekend:

ECQrHBrUIAEqWLg
 
So you would tell your kid not to exercise his 2A rights?

Why do cops get leeway to make split second decisions but ordinary citizens don’t?
 
DDA said:
I watched the video. That fucking sucks and he didn’t have to die. He reached for the waistband and quickly abandoned the effort in my view. And then when they cut his pants off you can see why. Just let the kid run, if he ditches the gun who cares they will get him and have prints on the gun. Instead some kid who made a bad decision is dead and gone but doesn’t have to be. Defending the quick trigger especially in the case of popping off 3 in the back is shitty.
Click to expand...

No need to die.
 
Junebug said:
There is no second amendment right to carry a gun in public, to bolt when accosted by police, or to reach for a gun in the chase.

Cops get leeway because they are voluntarily performing a dangerous public service without which society would cease to function. These are matters of life and death, and, even with training, the human body is not a computer, able to perfectly process data despite the circumstances. Further, if we don’t give them leeway, but, instead throw them in jail anytime they shoot someone, who in their right mind would do the job? Leeway isn’t license to kill people on a whim, but it is an acknowledgement of the limits of human capacity and a recognition of the incentives and value of the task being performed.
Click to expand...

I didn't realize you were against open carry.

The bold is a pretty strong argument for no cops.
 
Junebug said:
It wouldn’t change my view.

If I had a teenager, I would tell him not to carry a gun, not to bolt when a cop announces he wants to search him for a gun, and, for God’s sake, don’t reach for your waistband when a cop is chasing you for bolting after announcing he wants to search you for a gun.

Given the stakes, we have to give cops leeway to make split second decisions based on their perception of the situation. Here, I think they reasonably perceived that he was reaching for his gun and that their lives were in imminent danger. That this kid was killed is really sad, but it was the most predictable outcome of his actions. If he had been thinking “how could this be perceived?” instead of “man, I’m really going to be in trouble if I get caught” he’d be alive today. There are thousands upon thousands of police-citizen interactions that don’t end this way.
Click to expand...

I call BS. If this was a loved one, I think you’d definitely be asking “surely the police could’ve done something else?” Again, let the kid run, do a dragnet like WnB suggested, pick him up later, etc. He didn’t have to get shot 3 times in the back running away, man.
 
Police should be held to a higher standard. They are public servants and should be beacons of goodwill. Will they be perfect 100% of the time? Of course not. Can they make a bad decision? Sure. They are human. But that is exactly why you should not shoot in a situation like this. What if the kid had a knife instead of a gun? Is that justified? There is no way he could have stabbed someone while running away. He was wearing basketball shorts. He could have been puling his shorts up because his wallet and phone were dragging them down as he ran. In this case a gun was in his shorts but I never knew that until AFTER he was on the ground bleeding. Is hedging my bets on there being a gun worth killing someone?
 
DDA said:
I call BS. If this was a loved one, I think you’d definitely be asking “surely the police could’ve done something else?” Again, let the kid run, do a dragnet like WnB suggested, pick him up later, etc. He didn’t have to get shot 3 times in the back running away, man.
Click to expand...

Especially since the original 911 caller seemed to know the suspects name and what apartment building he lived in. The officer knew that as well since he asked the suspect if he went by a particular nickname. Also, only one kid ran; the other was in custody so he could potentially give the additional info.
 
I don’t understand folks who claim to be focused on safety of the police above all else but are either silent or defiantly defensive about “muh 2A” when the single greatest impact on police safety would be REDUCING THE GODDAMN AMOUNT OF GUNS. Most likely they are full of shit and don’t really care about the police.
 
Junebug said:
If you had a predetermined answer, why ask me the question?

The “pick him up later” argument is such a farce.
Click to expand...

Because I wanted to see if you had a different answer if it were a child or nephew of your’s. How hard is it to consider the thought that the kid didn’t have to die?

The “split second quick trigger” defense is such a farce.
 
06deacon said:
I don’t understand folks who claim to be focused on safety of the police above all else but are either silent or defiantly defensive about “muh 2A” when the single greatest impact on police safety would be REDUCING THE GODDAMN AMOUNT OF GUNS. Most likely they are full of shit and don’t really care about the police.
Click to expand...

+1
 
Junebug said:
If you had a predetermined answer, why ask me the question?

The “pick him up later” argument is such a farce.
Click to expand...

Why? That's how most people alleged of committing a crime are brought into custody. I don't understand why killing someone is a better option than finding them later.
 
Junebug said:
There is no second amendment right to carry a gun in public, to bolt when accosted by police, or to reach for a gun in the chase.

Cops get leeway because they are voluntarily performing a dangerous public service without which society would cease to function. These are matters of life and death, and, even with training, the human body is not a computer, able to perfectly process data despite the circumstances. Further, if we don’t give them leeway, but, instead throw them in jail anytime they shoot someone, who in their right mind would do the job? Leeway isn’t license to kill people on a whim, but it is an acknowledgement of the limits of human capacity and a recognition of the incentives and value of the task being performed.
Click to expand...

Pretty clear that you apply this logic differently for cops than for Tamir Rice.
 
My initial response when hearing about this tragedy was "FFS, not again. Something has to give".

After reading about it, watching the heart wrenching video and taking time to step back from my emotions, I've changed my mind about this specific incident. In a perfect world, Mr. Bailey would be still alive and most likely behind bars. Possibly shot in the leg, detained and cuffed, but not dead.

Bailey did nothing to help himself in this situation and did everything someone can possibly do wrong. I don't think he would have been shot had he just been running and not reached for his waist band. The officers clearly didn't want to shoot the guy...They demanded over and over for him to put his hands in the air and chill out...Bailey refused, put himself, others and the officers in potential danger, and the result is the tragic death of the young man's life.

I'm a white male, who couldn't possibly understand the pain, fear and injustice that black men feel when encountered by the police, but that doesn't change the fact that Bailey would be alive today had be showed minimal compliance.
 
The guy should still be living. However if all other circumstances were the same, but he happened to be white he probably still would be dead.

Still police need to start being held accountable in the scenarios.
 
CreamyGoodness said:
I'm a white male, who couldn't possibly understand the pain, fear and injustice that black men feel when encountered by the police, but that doesn't change the fact that Bailey would be alive today had be showed minimal compliance.
Click to expand...

But keep in mind the Tunnels Left has never been a fan of personal responsibility.

It's much easier to play the "all cops are racist" card or call for the elimination of all police officers.
 
PhDeac said:
Why? That's how most people alleged of committing a crime are brought into custody. I don't understand why killing someone is a better option than finding them later.
Click to expand...

The trial is so much cheaper if the suspect is already dead and the risk of acquittal on a technicality is so much lower. What is he disposed of the gun!?!
 
Those cops were too nonchalant and unprepared to confront someone they later claim to be too unsafe to let run away.

When they got the 911 call and heard the circumstances, they should have locked down the area, brought in major reinforcements and protection and the proper tools to apprehend this asshole. They knew the name and the address.

If he was too dangerous to let run AWAY from them, then why the fuck are they so casually approaching them? . The cops put themselves and this fuckwit in danger.

No one is arguing this kid is a saint or even very smart, but killing him was flat out wrong according to the law and to police procedure you fucking ninkompoops. A cop on here just told you that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top