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Thread: Fuck yeah, Science!

  1. #341
    Quote Originally Posted by Junebug View Post
    There's a big difference in claiming, based on mountains empirical data, that symmetry is a cosmic imperative and claiming that life, for which we have one example, is a cosmic imperative.
    Maybe but it's still scientific theory either way. While we have "just one" example of a planet full of life, there is certainly more evidence that points to life occurring as a natural part of the cosmos. When the primary building blocks of life are found in space.....that suggests that the same process could occur elsewhere and is part of the cosmic imperative. That's the primary reason we are looking for life elsewhere.

    https://www.newscientist.com/article...acids-for-life

  2. #342
    You're claiming cosmic imperative is scientific theory, and not just a hypothesis? Bold.

  3. #343
    Scott "Rufio" Feather Junebug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DistrictDeacon View Post
    You're claiming cosmic imperative is scientific theory, and not just a hypothesis? Bold.
    Yeah, very interesting article Pour, and thanks for posting, but calling the proposition that "life is a cosmic imperative" a theory is pretty loose language, at least based on my understanding of the scientific method.

  4. #344
    Quote Originally Posted by DistrictDeacon View Post
    You're claiming cosmic imperative is scientific theory, and not just a hypothesis? Bold.
    I don't believe there is much of a difference. The Theory of Relativity was called a theory before it was ever proven with any rigorous testing showing "a well-confirmed type of explanation of nature" (def from Wiki). Same with evolution. I think people spend way too much time trying to parse/label ideas as "X" or "Y" that in reality exists along a continuum and subject to lots of "beliefs". Science is not the same as math.

    As a chemist, if amino acids exist outside the planet, then there is no doubt that given the same timeframe and conditions, the same life will appear. The process has to be amino acid coupling to form some kind of rudimentary protein that can help with self-replication. Biological Skynet. Hypothesis/Theory/whatever you want to call it.

  5. #345
    This is off topic.
    I just listened to the oldest known recorded melody(3400 years).

    Thought came to me.
    Did Zeppelin copy that too?

  6. #346
    And I'll add....in practice we talk about concepts as "theories" all the time, concepts that you guys seem to think should be called something else. For example, some people have a theory that highly potent, selective compounds do not make good drugs so they favor weak, non-selective compounds. Others develop drugs under the theory that potent and selective candidates are the best. Neither is a "well confirmed type of explanation of nature" and fundamentally they contradict each other, but both are broad concepts that have evidence in support. We don't talk about them in terms of "hypothesis" or anything else, we use "theory".

    In practice, "hypothesis" is used when we are building an experiment...and is usually more specific. It's the specific concept being tested. We might say "Our hypothesis is positive allosteric modulators of the serotonin 2A receptor will be therapeutically better than orthosteric serotonin 2A agonists because they will limit psychoactive side effects (hallucinations) while imparting the beneficial anti-depressant affects of activating the frontal cortex".

  7. #347
    Seems like a self-professed scientist would be more precise in his language. And would not make statements like "there is no doubt" without a lot of supporting evidence.

  8. #348
    Quote Originally Posted by DistrictDeacon View Post
    Seems like a self-professed scientist would be more precise in his language. And would not make statements like "there is no doubt" without a lot of supporting evidence.
    Hint: We all died a couple of years ago from Pourdeac's Ebola pandemic.

  9. #349
    Scott "Rufio" Feather Junebug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pourdeac View Post
    As a chemist, if amino acids exist outside the planet, then there is no doubt that given the same timeframe and conditions, the same life will appear.
    See, you're doing it too. "As a chemist" adds nothing to the above statement of faith, other than to attempt to imbue it with the imprimatur of science.
    Last edited by Junebug; 09-08-2016 at 11:39 AM.

  10. #350
    I disagree with you
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junebug View Post
    See, you're doing it too. "As a chemist" adds nothing to the above statement of faith, other than to attempt to imbue it with the imprimatur of science.
    it's not faith, it's math.

  11. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by Junebug View Post
    See, you're doing it too. "As a chemist" adds nothing to the above statement of faith, other than to attempt to imbue it with the imprimatur of science.
    "As a chemist" means I/we know specific reactions are going to occur because that has been demonstrated. If the starting materials are there (and they are), then there is no doubt the same chemistry will occur....and the presumption is that if we weren't created by a divine entity...then the same process would happen here to create life. If by "statement of faith" you mean "we came out of the primoridal goo" then I guess that's what it is. There's assumption/faith in just about everything scientific at some point or another.

  12. #352
    Here's the latest in finding organic compounds in space. Pretty big deal.

    https://public.nrao.edu/news/pressre...016-chiral-gbt

  13. #353

  14. #354
    question: are scientists actively trying to replicate the original chemical reactions that caused life to happen on earth?

  15. #355
    Robert O'Kelley
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeacDiggler View Post
    question: are scientists actively trying to replicate the original chemical reactions that caused life to happen on earth?
    I believe they've gotten most of it done. They've found no way to kickstart replication though last I knew.

  16. #356
    Quote Originally Posted by dot com View Post
    I believe they've gotten most of it done. They've found no way to kickstart replication though last I knew.
    At some point, you've gotta suck up your pride and hook electrical cables to the clock tower.

  17. #357
    Quote Originally Posted by dot com View Post
    I believe they've gotten most of it done. They've found no way to kickstart replication though last I knew.
    So what have they accomplished? Serious inquiry.

  18. #358
    Look up Miller-Urey experiment and Abiogenesis

  19. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by DeacDiggler View Post
    question: are scientists actively trying to replicate the original chemical reactions that caused life to happen on earth?
    Yes, that's been ongoing for decades. There are still a lot of holes and gaps...including replication.

    http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/...life-conundrum

    http://gmwgroup.harvard.edu/research/index.php?page=11

  20. #360
    Quote Originally Posted by DeacDiggler View Post
    So what have they accomplished? Serious inquiry.
    Plausible syntheses of all of the basic building blocks of life have pretty much been found under early earth conditions...so amino acids (proteins), sugars and nucleic acids (DNA/RNA), etc. A lot of them are turning up on comets and asteroids...and now outerspace demonstrating the chemistry is not just earthly.

    What we don't know very well is how that all came together....the chirality, the timing, what was the key functional peptide/protein, how did RNA/DNA start...that kind of thing. A lot of people believe there were probably other chemical systems in early life which transmitted information like DNA, prions being one possibility. The likely abundance of amino acids and the ease of synthesis points to functional peptides forming first so peptides may have been used to build complex systems as we know it, plus transmit information for replication.

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