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Danny Manning Credibility Watch

Just landed a top 30 recruit and best in 10 years. Kenpom up 100 spots since when Manning got here. Clearly the talent is much better. Manning has the task of one of the worst rebuilds in college bball in the last 30 years and you wanna judge him off W-L for the first 2 years?
 
Even if you don't believe Manning is the answer, you can't be comfortable starting from scratch. Would the "fire him now" crew back that decision if you knew Chaundee goes to Kansas & you also potentially lose a Crawford or Collins or both to transfer? It has been an awful 7 years, but Im more than willing to see this thing try to progress as opposed to hitting a reset button.
 
daaberry said:
Even if you don't believe Manning is the answer, you can't be comfortable starting from scratch. Would the "fire him now" crew back that decision if you knew Chaundee goes to Kansas & you also potentially lose a Crawford or Collins or both to transfer? It has been an awful 7 years, but Im more than willing to see this thing try to progress as opposed to hitting a reset button.
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It's possible to say that I don't want to hit the reset button right now in January 2017 (as though we would ever do that). Obviously we will finish the year, and he will get another year too. It's also possible to say simultaneously that, just as many of us see the outcome of games unfolding precisely as we predicted because of Manning's established coaching deficiency patterns, we also see the outcomes of seasons unfolding precisely as we predicted.

I don't think Manning is going to lead us to the promised land and will need to be replaced. It is that simple. I am saying this in January 2017, even though it will be a long time before that actually happens. In the meantime I am going to continue to be frustrated watching us lose games we should win, even if I am not shouting from the rooftops that he get canned 10 games into the ACC season. Long-term, I know he should not be here. (He might anyway, depending on who the AD is.)

If I'm wrong? So be it. That means he led us to great heights. I don't think I will be proven wrong.
 
daaberry said:
Even if you don't believe Manning is the answer, you can't be comfortable starting from scratch. Would the "fire him now" crew back that decision if you knew Chaundee goes to Kansas & you also potentially lose a Crawford or Collins or both to transfer? It has been an awful 7 years, but Im more than willing to see this thing try to progress as opposed to hitting a reset button.
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I would absolutely be comfortable hitting the reset button, on one condition - we had an AD who I believe could make a great hire. We don't have that, so we really ought to stick with Manning, for now.

Wellman is the cloud that darkens this entire discussion. Without him, we at least have a hope of hiring a good coach, and a good coach is exponentially more important than any group of players. I would think Wake fans would recognize that implicitly after Wellman made the mistake of not putting the interim tag on Gaudio in order to keep AT&T together. Even a great recruiting class isn't worth keeping the wrong coach. And it's not as if Crawford and Collins have shown to be program-changing players anyway. If they were, then we wouldn't be having this conversation.
 
Collins might be if he played more than 23 minutes per game. He hasn't fouled out of a game yet. Manning has wasted so many of Collins' minutes and timeouts that it's funny.
 
DeacinBama said:
I would absolutely be comfortable hitting the reset button, on one condition - we had an AD who I believe could make a great hire. We don't have that, so we really ought to stick with Manning, for now.
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Exactly. A reset when you're already really bad is not a bad thing at all, assuming, of course, that you actually use it as a chance to make a good hire...unlike the two previous resets that Wellman has performed.
 
DeacinBama said:
I would absolutely be comfortable hitting the reset button, on one condition - we had an AD who I believe could make a great hire. We don't have that, so we really ought to stick with Manning, for now.

Wellman is the cloud that darkens this entire discussion. Without him, we at least have a hope of hiring a good coach, and a good coach is exponentially more important than any group of players. I would think Wake fans would recognize that implicitly after Wellman made the mistake of not putting the interim tag on Gaudio in order to keep AT&T together. Even a great recruiting class isn't worth keeping the wrong coach. And it's not as if Crawford and Collins have shown to be program-changing players anyway. If they were, then we wouldn't be having this conversation.
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Many Wake fans don't recognize that.
 
wfu22fan said:
Collins might be if he played more than 23 minutes per game. He hasn't fouled out of a game yet. Manning has wasted so many of Collins' minutes and timeouts that it's funny.
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It will be interesting to see how Collins is used tonight against Boston College.
 
DM better use him to win the game otherwise we will be 0-3 and DFL in conference play. :(
 
I guess BigDeac8 is real. He should be a parody.

I am ready for a change after the season unless Manning defies all odds and this team reaches it's potential.

Everyone said we had to hang on to BZ for 4 years while each year was one more year of digging the hole. Manning is not as bad as BZ, but he is pretty clearly not an ACC level coach.
Wellman is an idiot and he will keep Manning well past when everyone else knows he should be gone. He will then hire some bozo with no personality and a poor track record.

Even so, once you know you do not have a coach that can take you to the top half of the ACC consistently, you should make a change. We will likely know that by the end of this year.
 
Manning will have to go 10-18 in his next 28 ACC games to reach Buzz's level of conference performance

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
 
I don't want Ron Wellman anywhere near this next hire in basketball. I would keep Manning for two more years solely for that reason.
 
ChrisL68 said:
Manning will have to go 10-18 in his next 28 ACC games to reach Buzz's level of conference performance

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
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Yeah the similarities in ACC play are certainly there:

First two years:

[name redacted]: 21-42 (5-27)
Manning: 24-39 (7-29)

Manning is slightly better, but not by much at all from a record standpoint.

KenPom Ranking:

[name redacted]: 259, 211, 137
Manning: 120, 118, 44 (will probably finish around 50 if I had to guess)

ETA: The scheduling is not anywhere close to even though. The ACC is ridiculously loaded now, and we have played real OOC teams on the road. Despite the last two games, this team is clearly the best team that Wake has fielded in the past 7 years. That's not up for debate. The problems with Manning's in-game coaching are real, but hopefully fixable.
 
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Yeah, their records may look similar, but the conference is stronger now and our OCC schedules under [Redacted] were LOL bad.
 
PaddyWF said:
Yeah, their records may look similar, but the conference is stronger now and our OCC schedules under [Redacted] were LOL bad.
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Right to further this point:

[Redacted] SoS (Non Conference, Overall):

2011: 228, 65
2012: 213, 97
2013: 192, 61
2014: 233, 46

Manning SoS (Non Conference, Overall):

2015: 166, 37
2016: 30, 9
2017: 62, 19 (through FSU & Clemson, this will almost certainly be a top 10 schedule, if not 5 by the end of the year)
 
Lohengrin said:
That's a fair point, but one I don't know has to be conceded.
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Yeah. I guess it's possible, but interim typically means finishing out the year. I'm not sure why Wake fans act like hiring a new coach for the season after the former coach passed away is some kind of middle finger to his memory. It would have been perfectly reasonable to retain the staff for the season, hire a new coach with his own staff in April, and pay the old staff through December.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
I don't want Ron Wellman anywhere near this next hire in basketball. I would keep Manning for two more years solely for that reason.
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This.

If Wellman makes a bb coaching hire Hatch and the trustees are saying screw you Wake fans.
 
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