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Danny Manning Credibility Watch

Strickland33 said:
Data is data, but I'm not sure how much more of this I can watch. He may pull a [Redacted] and beat UNC or Duke this year, but Manning just isn't cut out for this job. We've seen how this plays out. I'm not sure how many fans are willing to wait and see it play out again.
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I don't think we wait for it to play out again. Manning is a waste of time and should be replaced at the end of the season. Sitting around hoping things get better rarely works. The bad news is that unless we find a way to get rid of Hatch...our athletic struggles will continue.
 
Manning is in way over his head but unfortunately we are stuck with him until Wellman leaves.
 
Strickland33 said:
To each their own. There were [Redacted] apologists until the end and there will be Manning apologists until his tenure comes to an end. I think I'm finally at the point where I've just had enough.

A good comparison for our program is USC.

They have a relatively small budget for recruiting, second rate facilities, and play in a competitive basketball conference with teams that have a lot of resources and tradition. They also had a [Redacted] in Kevin O'Neill, hired after Tim Floyd's sketchiness prompted the AD to call for a culture change. That's not hyperbole. They then hired a novice coach in Andy Enfield who hadn't proven much outside of a unlikely run in March. It took him two years to rebuild (logging 11-21/2-16 and 12-20/3-15 records in the process). He recruited a 4-Star and three starters in his first summer, two 4-stars in his second summer, two in his third, two in his fourth, and two on the way next year. Last year, USC finished 6th in a competitive PAC-12, compiled a 21-13 (9-9) record, and went to the NCAA Tournament. They're 15-2 right now, ranked in the top-25.
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Enfield could have been our current coach but that asshole Wellman was busy tripling down on stupid.
 
CharlotteDeac1 said:
You really can't be this dumb can you? Are you really this bad at reading comprehension? You are laughable. I said they had SIMILARITIES, such as poor in game coaching but good player development and recruiting. Never said he was going to be the next Roy Williams. You know how in the NFL Draft they compare players in the draft to current NFL stars? Yeah, they say "this player has a lot of similarities to Aaron Rodgers" not "this player is going to be the next Aaron Rodgers." It is honestly dumbfounding how dense you are.


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Your tone is not coming across as all that polite.
 
RJKarl said:
The only Philly coaches who would be Top 10ish coaches are Jay Wright and D2 Herbie Magee.

In no order and off the top of my head:

Izzo
Wright
K
Pitino
Self


Then take a couple of these:

Cal
Huggins
Bennett
Marshall
Boeheim
S. Miller
Few

There are several others I'd take over Forest.

His first championship was cheated with 4 leftover NBA lottery picks. One of whom admits not being eligible to play. When you take one Burger Boy out and put another one in, you don't need to be able to coach.
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I will break the news to Coach Williams that RJ does not want him to be the next basketball coach at Wake Forest. I will be gentle.
 
knowell said:
Enfield could have been our current coach but that asshole Wellman was busy tripling down on stupid.
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Wellman was basically sitting right beside the guy in the tournament.
 
PhDeac said:
The biggest knock on his credibility is that he has only recruited four ACC quality players in three classes.

Even worse, he doesn't seem to realize he only has four ACC quality players.

Worse than that, he gives his non-ACC quality players way more minutes than necessary and compounds that by playing them together in rag tag lineups that often kill first half momentum.

He does that because he doesn't seem to realize you can carry over a first half lead into the second half.
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+1
 
PhDeac said:
The biggest knock on his credibility is that he has only recruited four ACC quality players in three classes.

Even worse, he doesn't seem to realize he only has four ACC quality players.

Worse than that, he gives his non-ACC quality players way more minutes than necessary and compounds that by playing them together in rag tag lineups that often kill first half momentum.

He does that because he doesn't seem to realize you can carry over a first half lead into the second half.
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+2 Hard to tell which of the above is the biggest knock on his credibility. All are problems.
 
Roy Williams has still never lost a 1st round tournament game and has two natties and 8 final fours. The idea that the guy is a terrible coach is a curious one.
 
CharlotteDeac1 said:
You really can't be this dumb can you? Are you really this bad at reading comprehension? You are laughable. I said they had SIMILARITIES, such as poor in game coaching but good player development and recruiting. Never said he was going to be the next Roy Williams. You know how in the NFL Draft they compare players in the draft to current NFL stars? Yeah, they say "this player has a lot of similarities to Aaron Rodgers" not "this player is going to be the next Aaron Rodgers." It is honestly dumbfounding how dense you are.


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I am sorry, but you are the one that is laughable as you don't know that the word "comparable" is a synonym for "similar". Besides, even if Manning has certain SIMILARITIES to Williams with regards to poor in game coaching, good recruiting, and good player development, he DIFFERS in regards to winning. So the question is, when are the wins coming since we have a coach that has so many SIMILARITIES?
 
Forget Enfield. We could have had Gregg Mashall a long time ago, but Wellman didn't even consider him.
 
ChrisL68 said:
Roy Williams has still never lost a 1st round tournament game and has two natties and 8 final fours. The idea that the guy is a terrible coach is a curious one.
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Roy Williams is 7-0 against Tom Izzo as UNC's coach, including beating then #1 Sparty in East Lansing as a ten point underdog.

He beat Izzo for a national title in the State of Michigan by two touchdowns. He beat Izzo in East Lansing, he beat Izzo in Chapel Hill, he beat Tom Izzo on a boat in front of the President of the United States.

We are running out of places for Roy Williams to beat Tom Izzo.
 
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Wake is doing exactly what has been expected of them so far this season, albeit in a curios manner towards the end of games (which is problematic).

They have won every expected game on KP and lost every game they were expected to lose. Still expected to go 16-14, 7-11, and if we beat UNC we are actually ahead of where we were projected to start ACC play.

It's definitely infuriating to continue to watch the way we lose, but we are still who we thought we were...a middle to bottom ACC team. We have the starting lineup to compete with just about anybody, but depth is a big problem, and it hits us right when you think it would---at the under 10 minute mark.

What I am most concerned about is what we do when we hit that mark. We panic, start chucking threes, and when they don't fall we let our offense dictate our defense (go under screens, fail to close out, fail to rebound defensively). That prevents us from getting Collins post touches, and right now it seems that we don't have the leadership on or off the court to correct that, which is definitely concerning.

I don't think Manning's demeanor on the sideline is problematic, as there are several coaches who are calm throughout the game but still manage to get their point across. Kids learn in different ways, and maybe he feels that these guys learn best through this type of teaching/coaching. I think it's a combination of inexperience on the court, as well as the bench. I definitely agree with the people who say that we should add an experienced head coach as a top assistant to help micromanage in games.
 
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Strickland33 said:
Data is data, but I'm not sure how much more of this I can watch. He may pull a [Redacted] and beat UNC or Duke this year, but Manning just isn't cut out for this job. We've seen how this plays out. I'm not sure how many fans are willing to wait and see it play out again.
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Data are data.

What Ph is describing and the data support is a lack of sufficient talent on the team. Coaching deficiencies can generally be masked by good recruiting. Our team is doing about as well as can be expected given the talent (at least compared to previous coaches). Manning has no second unit or at least not an ACC caliber second unit. That has to be addressed through recruiting, but as Ph noted we've brought is 4 ACC caliber players in 3 classes; at that rate this could take a very long time. I'd also say we were better able to mask our talent deficiencies when Wilbekin was starting and Woods was coming off the bench to play with Childress.
 
Is there anyone who legitimately thought, up by 1 at the half, that we wouldn't end up losing by double digits?
 
RaleighTriad said:
I am sorry, but you are the one that is laughable as you don't know that the word "comparable" is a synonym for "similar". Besides, even if Manning has certain SIMILARITIES to Williams with regards to poor in game coaching, good recruiting, and good player development, he DIFFERS in regards to winning. So the question is, when are the wins coming since we have a coach that has so many SIMILARITIES?
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I guess you read what you want to read huh? Lol. Reading comprehension is hard sometimes. Also never said a similarity is winning because obviously he's not winning a lot, so not sure where you got that from.


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Can we talk about replacements on this thread. I want Chris Holtmann.
 
CharlotteDeac1 said:
You really can't be this dumb can you? Are you really this bad at reading comprehension? You are laughable. I said they had SIMILARITIES, such as poor in game coaching but good player development and recruiting. Never said he was going to be the next Roy Williams. You know how in the NFL Draft they compare players in the draft to current NFL stars? Yeah, they say "this player has a lot of similarities to Aaron Rodgers" not "this player is going to be the next Aaron Rodgers." It is honestly dumbfounding how dense you are.


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He's been mediocre at best on both fronts.
 
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