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Danny Manning Credibility Watch

I always thought the little brother outpaced the older brother in sports...Of course Wake gets the little brother of a former SEC player of the year and he can't do shit...Yay LOWF!
 
Strickland33 said:
To each their own. There were [Redacted] apologists until the end and there will be Manning apologists until his tenure comes to an end. I think I'm finally at the point where I've just had enough.

A good comparison for our program is USC.

They have a relatively small budget for recruiting, second rate facilities, and play in a competitive basketball conference with teams that have a lot of resources and tradition. They also had a [Redacted] in Kevin O'Neill, hired after Tim Floyd's sketchiness prompted the AD to call for a culture change. That's not hyperbole. They then hired a novice coach in Andy Enfield who hadn't proven much outside of a unlikely run in March. It took him two years to rebuild (logging 11-21/2-16 and 12-20/3-15 records in the process). He recruited a 4-Star and three starters in his first summer, two 4-stars in his second summer, two in his third, two in his fourth, and two on the way next year. Last year, USC finished 6th in a competitive PAC-12, compiled a 21-13 (9-9) record, and went to the NCAA Tournament. They're 15-2 right now, ranked in the top-25.
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Well according to KenPom Wake is currently a better team than USC. I feel safe saying that they would not have won any of the 6 games that Wake has lost with Clemson at home being the only potential exception.
 
Ayo said:
He's been mediocre at best on both fronts.
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In my original post about the couple similarities, I noted that the recruiting will see a huge uptick when wins come given he's recruited the way he has while we suck (five 4 stars + eggleston who I see as one). When those wins will come I don't know. He should also get big props for developing Collins into an NBA prospect. Now we need to see if he can win and I'm willing to wait until after next season when we have the players to get the job done to make my final decision on him. I'm not a Manning apologist, I just see the massive impact it could have on our program getting rid of him after year three.


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daaberry said:
Well according to KenPom Wake is currently a better team than USC. I feel safe saying that they would not have won any of the 6 games that Wake has lost with Clemson at home being the only potential exception.
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They have also played the 189th overall schedule compared to our 12th hardest. They are 15-2 and we are 10-6.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
Wake is doing exactly what has been expected of them so far this season, albeit in a curios manner towards the end of games (which is problematic).

They have won every expected game on KP and lost every game they were expected to lose. Still expected to go 16-14, 7-11, and if we beat UNC we are actually ahead of where we were projected to start ACC play.

It's definitely infuriating to continue to watch the way we lose, but we are still who we thought we were...a middle to bottom ACC team. We have the starting lineup to compete with just about anybody, but depth is a big problem, and it hits us right when you think it would---at the under 10 minute mark.

What I am most concerned about is what we do when we hit that mark. We panic, start chucking threes, and when they don't fall we let our offense dictate our defense (go under screens, fail to close out, fail to rebound defensively). That prevents us from getting Collins post touches, and right now it seems that we don't have the leadership on or off the court to correct that, which is definitely concerning.

I don't think Manning's demeanor on the sideline is problematic, as there are several coaches who are calm throughout the game but still manage to get their point across. Kids learn in different ways, and maybe he feels that these guys learn best through this type of teaching/coaching. I think it's a combination of inexperience on the court, as well as the bench. I definitely agree with the people who say that we should add an experienced head coach as a top assistant to help micromanage in games.
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That's the record that my Creamy filling still tells me we'll finish at. I was made fun of in the game thread last night for saying that. It kind of hurt my feelings too.
 
6 seems more realistic to me just eyeballing the schedule.

Wins: Miami, @BC, Georgia Tech, State, Pitt

That would be a 5-4 home record and a 1-8 road record. Not sure we can beat anybody else on the road. Maybe we can steal one against Cuse or State, but that feels unlikely at this juncture.
 
PTownDeac said:
That would have been a good hire back when we had an opening. Not going to happen now.
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People would have freaked out if we hired a Gardner-Webb head coach with a 44-54 record. Obviously he is paying huge dividends at Butler now, but that hire would have been skewered at every level. Hindsight is 20/20 every single time.
 
deacons1080 said:
the question is, if we go 16-14 and 7-11 - does that get us into the NIT?
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Interesting question, as I thought the same thing when I typed up my response a few minutes ago. I'm not really sure what the NIT criteria is, and a lot of those spots are taken up by mid-major teams and below who win their conference regular season but lose in their conference tournament.
 
I just don't see six more wins based on the way this team performs on the road and/or in end-of-game scenarios. We have seven more home games and GT is the only one where I'd be surprised if we lost.
 
A few of us kept saying it was unrealistic to think we could get to 9-9 in this year's ACC with our squad. We thought it would be a high amount of overachieving against our schedule to make it to 7-11 this year.

We should have beaten Clemson. But the reality is, we aren't as talented as the teams we are playing.
 
I'm done with this team, until they win at least one game where they do not fold in the 2nd half. Just too hard on an old man's heart to continue to watch this shit
 
It would be an interesting breakdown to see where we rank in terms of talent (i.e. recruiting rankings) vs. the rest of the ACC. Obviously that is on the coaching staff too, but at this point we have who we have. We are probably right around where we should be (10th-11th) if we just looked at recruiting as where a team should be.
 
CharlotteDeac1 said:
I guess you read what you want to read huh? Lol. Reading comprehension is hard sometimes. Also never said a similarity is winning because obviously he's not winning a lot, so not sure where you got that from.


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Listen snowflake, I am sorry I hurt you little sweet feelings by saying your similarities were ridiculous, but obviously you do not get it. Manning's recruiting is NOT on par with Williams, nor is his coaching or player development. We have 4 ACC players in the 3 recruiting classes he has put together. I added my opinion saying that they DIFFER in wins, obviously reading comprehension is above the grasp of Wellman lapdogs like yourself.
 
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RaleighTriad said:
Listen snowflake, I am sorry I hurt you little sweet feelings by saying your similarities were ridiculous, but obviously you do not get it. Manning's recruiting is NOT on par with Williams, nor is his coaching or player development. We have 4 ACC players in the 3 recruiting classes he has put together. I added my opinion saying that they DIFFER in wins, obviously reading comprehension is above the grasp of Wellman lapdogs like yourself.
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See there you go again reading what you want to read. I literally just said his recruiting has being good given how bad of a team we've been the last six years and that if the wins come I believe he will be a great recruiter. Never said Manning's recruiting was on par with Williams but keep putting words in my mouth. Obviously you don't like being wrong and I get that but sorry you are. Also, I have no idea where you get that I'm a Wellman lapdog. I don't think I have ever voiced anything remotely resembling support for Wellman's basketball coaching hire choices. But again, read what you want to read.


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CharlotteDeac1 said:
See there you go again reading what you want to read. I literally just said his recruiting has being good given how bad of a team we've been the last six years and that if the wins come I believe he will be a great recruiter. Never said Manning's recruiting was on par with Williams but keep putting words in my mouth. Obviously you don't like being wrong and I get that but sorry you are. Also, I have no idea where you get that I'm a Wellman lapdog. I don't think I have ever voiced anything remotely resembling support for Wellman's basketball coaching hire choices. But again, read what you want to read.


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Fair enough. What other similarities does Danny share with other Hall of Fame and high win percentage coaches? When do we start seeing those traits translate into wins?
 
Deacsfan27 said:
People would have freaked out if we hired a Gardner-Webb head coach with a 44-54 record. Obviously he is paying huge dividends at Butler now, but that hire would have been skewered at every level. Hindsight is 20/20 every single time.
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Good point. But he did get 21 wins in his third and final year there and left enough talent for 38 wins the 2 years after his departure.

Butler plays like you want a team to play.
 
I only listed three similarities (one being a negative) to Roy because from what I've seen, and from what others have pointed out here, it is similar to the negative and positives from Roy that my UNC friends have talked to me about (i.e. Poor timeout usage. He has too good of players to have bad lineups). I believe with the recruiting class we have coming in and if we can bring in a good grad transfer guard we will make a huge jump next year. We will know everything we need to know about Manning in my opinion after year 4 (win count next year + 2018 recruiting class)


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