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Danny Manning Credibility Watch

You do understand that next year every ACC team believes they will get better too. Do you believe we'll be a top 50 team in late February? We've been adding experience and depth for 7 years now and we're still at the bottom.

The team you talk about next year beating X, NW, Clemson and either FSU and VA I suppose assumes they get worse.

Sometimes the logic on this board is amazing. DM does not have one signature conference win 4 games into year 3
 
You do understand that next year every ACC team believes they will get better too. Do you believe we'll be a top 50 team in late February? We've been adding experience and depth for 7 years now and we're still at the bottom.

The team you talk about next year beating X, NW, Clemson and either FSU and VA I suppose assumes they get worse.

Sometimes the logic on this board is amazing. DM does not have one signature conference win 4 games into year 3

But if UVA didn't bank in that 3 it'd all be different?

Yawn.
 
You do understand that next year every ACC team believes they will get better too. Do you believe we'll be a top 50 team in late February? We've been adding experience and depth for 7 years now and we're still at the bottom.

The team you talk about next year beating X, NW, Clemson and either FSU and VA I suppose assumes they get worse.

Sometimes the logic on this board is amazing. DM does not have one signature conference win 4 games into year 3

1. We lose nobody and gain a top 30 recruit at our biggest position of need. We will be more talented and more experienced next year. Not every ACC team can say that.

2. On average college basketball quality stays roughly the same year to year (unless you are listening to bkf). I don't know how X and NW will be next year (Clemson will be worse). I do know that if Crawford and Collins were more experienced and Chaundee was on the team we likely would have won those three games.

3. We haven't been adding depth and experience for 7 years.

Look, I am as frustrated as anyone that we haven't been to the tournament this decade and aren't likely to make it this year. But I'm not going to penalize Manning for [name redacted]'s destruction of our program and in fact I'm giving him a grace year because of how truly horrendous of a situation he took over. I consider this year two for Manning and unless you limit yourself to wins and losses the improvement is quite clear.
 
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I wish the people who are bashing skeptics would just admit that they are basing their opinions on hope and moral victories.

"Moral victories" is simply another way of saying analytically positive but emotionally negative event. Ultimately wins are all that matters, but...

unless you limit yourself to wins and losses the improvement is quite clear.

Little more needs to be said about our respective perspectives.

You're working hard to defend Manning. I mean, you guys are carrying some water. I respect that. There's much to defend. But the fact that you even have to work so hard, and in so doing remove wins and losses from the equation as a legitimate means of measuring success or the potential for future success, should be an indicator that your viewpoint isn't the only rational one.
 
Next year the team will have a good shot at getting off to a great OOC start. They will likely be the favorite to win the Paradise Jam (3 wins). Wake has played 2 straight roadies for the challenge so next season will be a home game. The Skip classic takes a 2 yr hiatus so no X. Richmond will be at the Joel. Maybe they start with 12/13 wins. Let's not forget they haven't got beat by a bad team all year. I still see them this season finishing at 10/11th place in ACC. Next year they improve enough to take that to 8/9th & they r in the tournament. I don't believe it's as improbable as many have expressed.
 
You do understand that next year every ACC team believes they will get better too. Do you believe we'll be a top 50 team in late February? We've been adding experience and depth for 7 years now and we're still at the bottom.

The team you talk about next year beating X, NW, Clemson and either FSU and VA I suppose assumes they get worse.

Sometimes the logic on this board is amazing. DM does not have one signature conference win 4 games into year 3

Nor can Mr. DM hold a friggin lead. One would think that with Randolph Childress on this coaching staff that he would be able to teach and coach our guards a few things about end of game command and better passing to their teammates. What we do with the basketball just defies belief most of the time. We just let fly with three point shots or make stupid passes in the second half of games. They just have not been coached to find the post guys late in games.
 
Little more needs to be said about our respective perspectives.

You're working hard to defend Manning. I mean, you guys are carrying some water. I respect that. There's much to defend. But the fact that you even have to work so hard, and in so doing remove wins and losses from the equation as a legitimate means of measuring success or the potential for future success, should be an indicator that your viewpoint isn't the only rational one.

I'm not removing wins and losses from the equation, I'm simply arguing that you have to include everything else. Especially if the question is "how do we think Manning is going to do moving forward?"
 
Nor can Mr. DM hold a friggin lead. One would think that with Randolph Childress on this coaching staff that he would be able to teach and coach our guards a few things about end of game command and better passing to their teammates. What we do with the basketball just defies belief most of the time. We just let fly with three point shots or make stupid passes in the second half of games. They just have not been coached to find the post guys late in games.

It's almost like we have a sophomore point guard with no legitimate backup to challenge him or allow Manning to use playing time as a teaching tool.
 
I'm not removing wins and losses from the equation, I'm simply arguing that you have to include everything else. Especially if the question is "how do we think Manning is going to do moving forward?"

Understand. And my argument is that our losses in general over 2.5 years, and especially those which could have or should have been wins, say something undeniably important about how he is going to do moving forward.
 
Understand. And my argument is that our losses in general over 2.5 years, and especially those which could have or should have been wins, say something undeniably important about how he is going to do moving forward.

I think there is far too much conflating the could have with the should have. We have people on here criticizing Manning because his team faded against a bunch of top 25 teams as if we should have won those games without giving him any credit for the fact that we could have.
 
Understand. And my argument is that our losses in general over 2.5 years, and especially those which could have or should have been wins, say something undeniably important about how he is going to do moving forward.

I would also argue that losses in year 1, with a majority [Redacted] filled team, have zero predictive value of Manning's performance going forward.
 
I think he's a moderately good coach. I do not think he's the guy to get us where we all want to go. ACC Championships, Sweet 16's. We've seen who he is.

You're going to keep believing in him this season as the long-term answer for WFU, and attempting to convince others to do the same. That's cool. You have a hard task ahead of you that I certainly don't envy.
 
I think he's a moderately good coach. I do not think he's the guy to get us where we all want to go. ACC Championships, Sweet 16's. We've seen who he is.

You're going to keep believing in him this season as the long-term answer for WFU, and attempting to convince others to do the same. That's cool. You have a hard task ahead of you that I certainly don't envy.

We've seen who he is? Give me a fucking break.

He's 2 1/2 years into the biggest rebuild in recent memory and has been a head coach for less than 5 seasons. He has yet to coach a team with 5 ACC quality players on it and yet we are top 50 in the country.
 
We've seen who he is? Give me a fucking break.

He's 2 1/2 years into the biggest rebuild in recent memory and has been a head coach for less than 5 seasons. He has yet to coach a team with 5 ACC quality players on it and yet we are top 50 in the country.
Touchy. Watching the DM defenders contort themselves into pretzels this year as the losses pile up could at least make for an interesting sideshow.

"Analytically positive but emotionally negative events" FTW
 
It would be interesting if it wasn't the same sideshow we've seen for every coach.
 
Y'all have fun being miserable,living in fear of the ghost of [Redacted] because our 3-star talent team lost a bunch of competitive games to top 25 schools on the road.

I'm going to enjoy watching our top 50 basketball team try to make the next step
 
Little more needs to be said about our respective perspectives.

You're working hard to defend Manning. I mean, you guys are carrying some water. I respect that. There's much to defend. But the fact that you even have to work so hard, and in so doing remove wins and losses from the equation as a legitimate means of measuring success or the potential for future success, should be an indicator that your viewpoint isn't the only rational one.

It's not that hard to look at this team and know it's much better from the past few teams.

The reason why it makes sense to look at it from a statistical and analytical point of view is due to the limited sample size and random variance involved in the small sample size of games we have played so far. Once again, wins and losses are all that matter at the end of the day, but that doesn't mean they are anywhere near the best predictive tool for how we will fare in our next game, or rest of the season.

We need to get going soon if we are going to make the NCAA-T this year though.
 
It would be interesting if it wasn't the same sideshow we've seen for every coach.

Its not Jan. 20th yet. I'm not sure using data to support an argument equals "twisting oneself into contortions" until then.

The Buzzin crowd always ignored the overwhelming data that showed exactly who [Redacted] was. Towards the end they clung to win-loss record and one-off upsets to support their argument.

You're right, it's not that interesting.
 
Sorry I'll dumb it down for you:

"Look good, Feel bad. SAD"
:thumbsup:
I look at everything. Data, game trends, win/loss record, recruiting, demeanor. Everything else you can perceive about a coach. And I see the good. (Since you're still trying to convince me of all of the positive data, I think you have missed this point.) I just don't think it's all going to add up to him being the phenomenal coach that we need.

I view his potential differently than you do. And for some reason you have a really hard time accepting that.
 
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