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Danny Manning Credibility Watch

Please explain to me how a "shitty coach" can create an offense the led a team of not highly rated players into being the 10th best offense in the nation?

Explain to me how a "shitty coach" can get enough out of a team predicted not to have any hope of making any post season (other than the ACCT), make the NCCAT?

Without question this is a horrible start, but this team has holes in it that you could drive trucks through. Rarely can your lose 44% of your scoring and be competitive (unless you are a scum program like Duke, KY, etc.). Making it worse was losing basically all of our interior players and to this point our bigs not improving enough. Sarr is going to be a player, but it's going to take some time for him to learn the American game.

This reverberates through the entire team. We have two full-sized guards in Bryant and Chaundee.

As ATS and others have said, rebuilding a program (or even a business) from below the ashes is not always a linear progression. Sometimes, you have a bad year between good years that create the foundation of a solid program. But people here want everything immediately and cry like babies if it isn't handed to them.

I am disappointed in the results thus far and how bad this season will be, bjut you guys are going way off the deep end.
 
birdman said:
I don’t think anyone is saying we should have hired Keatts 4 years ago. The fretting is that State is going to surpass Wake as we fumble around with our 8th year of shitty coaching. To be fair, the best coach, maybe except for Keats, that State has had in the last 20 year was Herb Fucking Sendek. They have festered in mediocrity since Valvano.
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Exactly, birdman. And RJ, I know you're trying to make the point that fluke things happen and bad teams sometimes beat good teams. But when a team has 3 "fluke" losses in 5 games, they aren't flukes anymore. It's just a bad team losing to a bad team.

We obviously won't fire DM this year after a tourney appearance, nor should we. That would further poison our reputation amongst potential coaches. But if Wake does not make the tourney next year, we should cut him loose. That would be 4 out of 5 years with no postseason, which is simply unacceptable.
 
RJKarl said:
Please explain to me how a "shitty coach" can create an offense the led a team of not highly rated players into being the 10th best offense in the nation?

Explain to me how a "shitty coach" can get enough out of a team predicted not to have any hope of making any post season (other than the ACCT), make the NCCAT?

Without question this is a horrible start, but this team has holes in it that you could drive trucks through. Rarely can your lose 44% of your scoring and be competitive (unless you are a scum program like Duke, KY, etc.). Making it worse was losing basically all of our interior players and to this point our bigs not improving enough. Sarr is going to be a player, but it's going to take some time for him to learn the American game.

This reverberates through the entire team. We have two full-sized guards in Bryant and Chaundee.

As ATS and others have said, rebuilding a program (or even a business) from below the ashes is not always a linear progression. Sometimes, you have a bad year between good years that create the foundation of a solid program. But people here want everything immediately and cry like babies if it isn't handed to them.

I am disappointed in the results thus far and how bad this season will be, bjut you guys are going way off the deep end.
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First of all, I was describing the fretting of other posters so you can check in with them.

Second, all of the success in your first two sentences could be explained by John Collins, a wildly under rated recruit, now in the NBA getting started on a great career.

I don't know if Manning is a shitty coach. The only thing certain about him and his staff, at this point, is that they are good recruiters. You can't say with certainty that he sucks or is good at any other aspect of the job.
 
Section2mankini said:
Exactly, birdman. And RJ, I know you're trying to make the point that fluke things happen and bad teams sometimes beat good teams. But when a team has 3 "fluke" losses in 5 games, they aren't flukes anymore. It's just a bad team losing to a bad team.

We obviously won't fire DM this year after a tourney appearance, nor should we. That would further poison our reputation amongst potential coaches. But if Wake does not make the tourney next year, we should cut him loose. That would be 4 out of 5 years with no postseason, which is simply unacceptable.
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Next year is the key year. But to say he's a shitty coach is ridiculous. We can't know that yet.
 
Using Collins as an argument AGAINST Danny Manning is my new favorite dumb thing.
 
birdman said:
First of all, I was describing the fretting of other posters so you can check in with them.

Second, all of the success in your first two sentences could be explained by John Collins, a wildly under rated recruit, now in the NBA getting started on a great career.

I don't know if Manning is a shitty coach. The only thing certain about him and his staff, at this point, is that they are good recruiters. You can't say with certainty that he sucks or is good at any other aspect of the job.
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If it was only one player and that guy rarely went more than six feet from the hoop, then the opposition would have been able to sag and stop him . We were also the third best three point shooting team in the ACC. We were second in points per possession, second on ACC scoring and third in assists.

You can't be all of those because of one guy. You have to have solid, well thought out and well executed offensive sets. It wasn't just JC who was getting easy shots and open looks.

Unless out broadcasters are blinds this year, they have been describing a continuum of missed, open shots so far this year. The system is working. The players aren't.

There's no question that Danny hasn't proven to be a top level defensive coach yet, but it's logical to give him major props for his offense.
 
DCDeac said:
Using Collins as an argument AGAINST Danny Manning is my new favorite dumb thing.
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That would be dumb. Glad I'm not doing that. Attributing the teams success to a great player that left early is not the same as using the the great player as an argument against the coach.
 
RJKarl said:
If it was only one player and that guy rarely went more than six feet from the hoop, then the opposition would have been able to sag and stop him . We were also the third best three point shooting team in the ACC. We were second in points per possession, second on ACC scoring and third in assists.

You can't be all of those because of one guy. You have to have solid, well thought out and well executed offensive sets. It wasn't just JC who was getting easy shots and open looks.

Unless out broadcasters are blinds this year, they have been describing a continuum of missed, open shots so far this year. The system is working. The players aren't.

There's no question that Danny hasn't proven to be a top level defensive coach yet, but it's logical to give him major props for his offense.
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He's had one good offensive season with us and it was the same season we had a breakout performance by an NBA talent. The fact that the one successful (and let's be honest, it was moderate success) season over lapped with Collins' rise generates uncertainty, for me at least, about what the coach is capable of, especially when it is followed up with the garbage play we've had this year.
 
birdman said:
That would be dumb. Glad I'm not doing that. Attributing the teams success to a great player that left early is not the same as using the the great player as an argument against the coach.
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So basically all bad things are attributed to Manning while all good things are attributed to the players? Got it
 
RJKarl said:
Hmmmm...let's see when we hired Danny, Keatts was a 2nd/3rd year assistant in a scumbag program and had been a HS coach. Yep, that would have made sense.

Chaminade beat Ralph Sampson's UVA team. B zzz beat #2 and undefeated Miami.
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Bzz was a good x and o coach and a better game coach than Manning. His problems were recruiting, personality and communication/pr.
 
CharlotteDeac1 said:
So basically all bad things are attributed to Manning while all good things are attributed to the players? Got it
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FFS, it is not hard. Manning did a great job with Collins. He is doing a bad job with out him. Attributing credit and blame for the success and failures is uncertain. It's not that hard to follow.
 
If y'all are satisfied with the way things are going, good for you, you're a better fan than I. I'm embarrassed and frustrated and looking for reasons. It's pretty hard for me to see the loss of Collins and the subsequent complete collapse of the team and not question the quality of the coach.
 
RJKarl said:
Please explain to me how a "shitty coach" can create an offense the led a team of not highly rated players into being the 10th best offense in the nation?

Explain to me how a "shitty coach" can get enough out of a team predicted not to have any hope of making any post season (other than the ACCT), make the NCCAT?

Without question this is a horrible start, but this team has holes in it that you could drive trucks through. Rarely can your lose 44% of your scoring and be competitive (unless you are a scum program like Duke, KY, etc.). Making it worse was losing basically all of our interior players and to this point our bigs not improving enough. Sarr is going to be a player, but it's going to take some time for him to learn the American game.

This reverberates through the entire team. We have two full-sized guards in Bryant and Chaundee.

As ATS and others have said, rebuilding a program (or even a business) from below the ashes is not always a linear progression. Sometimes, you have a bad year between good years that create the foundation of a solid program. But people here want everything immediately and cry like babies if it isn't handed to them.

I am disappointed in the results thus far and how bad this season will be, bjut you guys are going way off the deep end.
Click to expand...
Do keep lecturing the board about whining, RJ! That’s sure to get through.
 
knowell said:
Keatts is what a really good college coach looks like. They make good talent great and mediocre talent good.

The "talent is king" crowd needs to take a gander at Raleigh. Wake has better talent than NC State at this point but the teams are not comparable.
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uh, pretty sure this NC State squad has more talent than Wake does. Wake would kill to have five players that are the quality of Al Freeman, Torin Dorn, Lennard Freeman, Yurtseven and Abu.

Just because State is going through a coaching transition doesn't mean the cupboard is empty. The cupboard is pretty damn full.
 
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birdman said:
This is a fine argument and line of excuses when it comes to our (probable) eventual losses to VT or GT, maybe our team is not talented enough and our front court is waaay too inexperienced for ACC play. But, FFS, Drake, Liberty, etc.? We don't have the talent to compete with those teams?
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Not a comment on the coaching-so maybe it doesn't belong on this thread-but in my opinion no, we don't. We have one good player in Brown. In Childress we have a serviceable rotation player with certain liabilities. Other than that, the best we have going for us is maybe Melo or Sarr will develop quickly. I don't buy the Crawford love on here. I think he's just an ooc disaster. The rest are who they've always been.
 
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