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Danny Manning Credibility Watch

BillBrasky said:
That's a great plan for the first five seconds of the HT offense. But what happens if nothing is there? That's the problem with his offense. If it doesn't work in the first 10 seconds it descends into hero ball.
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Of course there will be times when there isn’t something off the screen but every team has to have individuals make plays sometimes to be successful.

I guess we’ll just agree to disagree, because being 7th and 37th in offense in consecutive years doesn’t seem to me like there is much of a “problem” with the offensive scheme.

ETA: it doesn’t descend into hero ball after 10 seconds. I don’t have a stat on it but from memory it seems like if it doesn’t work we run it again or have the motion the scheme creates for the wings to fall back on.
 
CharlotteDeac1 said:
Big man screens up top (sometimes both the 4 and 5 screen at the top of the key - which we did much more last season with Collins) creates a lot of moving parts and options for the guards.
First option: run off the screen and take the ball to the basket
Second option: rub off the screen and have the big roll to the basket for an oop or layup
Third option: rub off the screen, drive to the basket, bring the wing mans defender in for help and dish outside for the open three
Fourth option: with Sarr and Thompson there’s an option for a pick and pop for the three at the top of the key - easiest three pointer to make.
Fifth option: with only one big man screener up top, drive and take his defender off for help and dish it off to him under the basket.
Sixth option: the screeners man doesn’t hedge and the guard is wide open for an open three or a pull up jumper at the free throw line/elbow area


There are a ton of moving parts to Manning’s offense and that’s the reason it is successful. I’m sure there are other options/circumstances I didn’t mention that occur often.
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The problem is that we only run this one play 98% of the time. You can see options at times when the ball is moved and reversed. That rarely happens. It gets stuck and we jack up a quick three without making the defense work. When the threes aren’t falling, we really struggle. How about running Wilbekin or Brown off of some screens today when they were hot? And the other teams have seen this offense so much that they know how to defend it.
 
I would like to know the name of this offense and who else runs it. It’s a guard dominant scheme.
 
so Keats beats Duke in his first try, yet DM hasn't beaten either Duke or UNC and it is year 4. Fun times.
 
CharlotteDeac1 said:
I know this post will get some pushback and that I’m preaching to a collective brick wall here, but winning on the road in the ACC is a really difficult thing to do. Can we stop, or at least try to limit, the DMCW stuff after every single game? Duke just lost to state on the road, a worse team than Boston College. It’s almost like winning on the road in the acc isn’t easy.
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All I know is that we are 8-7 with some really shitty losses and no stand out wins on the schedule. That would not lead to a good progress report by any standard.

Agreed?
 
After 13 games, Manning had a worse record than Clawson. That should not happen.
 
deacvision7 said:
All I know is that we are 8-7 with some really shitty losses and no stand out wins on the schedule. That would not lead to a good progress report by any standard.

Agreed?
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Agreed for sure, this season has been a disappointment by any standard. I am willing to give this season a bit of a pass and look for improvement throughout the season based on the early departures of both John Collins and Dinos Mitoglou. We will know all we need to know about Manning after next season through a combination of on-court success and if he can continue to improve his recruiting efforts as he has the past two years.
 
I just really enjoy reading regurgitated defenses of Manning in year 4 of things said about he who shall not be named in year 2. Some more nuance on the arguments now, but the overall themes are very similar.

People just enjoy lying to themselves in the interest of fandom. I've done it before so not hating, just observing.
 
deacvision7 said:
I just really enjoy reading regurgitated defenses of Manning in year 4 of things said about he who shall not be named in year 2. Some more nuance on the arguments now, but the overall themes are very similar.

People just enjoy lying to themselves in the interest of fandom. I've done it before so not hating, just observing.
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I was never a fan of Bz, thought he would be awful the whole time. However, I would imagine the defenses being similar would have more to do with both being full rebuilds rather than any kind of similarity of the two coaches. I will be sad to admit I was wrong about Manning if he ends up never seeing sustained success at Wake, but I will definitely do so if it is warranted.
 
CharlotteDeac1 said:
Agreed for sure, this season has been a disappointment by any standard. I am willing to give this season a bit of a pass and look for improvement throughout the season based on the early departures of both John Collins and Dinos Mitoglou. We will know all we need to know about Manning after next season through a combination of on-court success and if he can continue to improve his recruiting efforts as he has the past two years.
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How can you give any sort of a pass for a terrible performance on the season to date? 8-7 with the OOC schedule played? I don't think that can be excused.

And again, I haven't watched a single minute of Wake basketball this season and about 5-10 minutes of college basketball total this year (Texas vs Kansas last week), so I have no idea how those losses went, how the wins went, what was done right, what was done wrong, any improvements, any increased deficiencies in the team, etc.

All I know is that if people were told in August that the Deacs would be 8-7 on January 7th with losses to Georgia Southern, Liberty, Drake, Houston, and Boston College they would have told the person telling them that they were absolutely nuts. But here we are and excuses are being made.
 
deacvision7 said:
How can you give any sort of a pass for a terrible performance on the season to date? 8-7 with the OOC schedule played? I don't think that can be excused.

And again, I haven't watched a single minute of Wake basketball this season and about 5-10 minutes of college basketball total this year (Texas vs Kansas last week), so I have no idea how those losses went, how the wins went, what was done right, what was done wrong, any improvements, any increased deficiencies in the team, etc.

All I know is that if people were told in August that the Deacs would be 8-7 on January 7th with losses to Georgia Southern, Liberty, Drake, Houston, and Boston College they would have told the person telling them that they were absolutely nuts. But here we are and excuses are being made.
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The losses at the beginning of the year are bad, but who we lost to is what makes things worse. The losses we took at the beginning of the season tainted the OOC schedule, and they will continue to haunt us regardless of wins. I feel that they only way to shake the disappointment of the start of this season is to win the ACC.

On a coaching note, I think that Manning needs to have a talk with Crawford and Chill about valuing the ball, and looking for the open man. Crawford’s game feels a lot like JR Smith in terms of trying to get his point quota.
 
deacvision7 said:
How can you give any sort of a pass for a terrible performance on the season to date? 8-7 with the OOC schedule played? I don't think that can be excused.

And again, I haven't watched a single minute of Wake basketball this season and about 5-10 minutes of college basketball total this year (Texas vs Kansas last week), so I have no idea how those losses went, how the wins went, what was done right, what was done wrong, any improvements, any increased deficiencies in the team, etc.

All I know is that if people were told in August that the Deacs would be 8-7 on January 7th with losses to Georgia Southern, Liberty, Drake, Houston, and Boston College they would have told the person telling them that they were absolutely nuts. But here we are and excuses are being made.
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I couldn’t watch the drake game because of the paywall so I can’t comment on that one. Georgia Southern was a combination of really bad defense and getting out rebounded by a smaller team - which I chalked up to losing the very large majority of our rebounding in Collins and Dinos. No “excuse” for that performance. I remember it being hard to watch with the lack of effort displayed.
Liberty, we shot 12% from three. That’s 27% lower than our average on the season. That is an huge abnormality and our bigs are not good enough to take the pressure off our guards. And again in this game, we got outrebounded by 10 to a much smaller team.
Compensating for the loss of a first round draft pick and our second best big, and 4th best player in the same year in a full rebuild is a really difficult task and Dinos leaving late gave Manning no time to recruit a good grad transfer big. Thompson is not good.

I’m not trying to make excuses but the second to last sentence is the main point I’m making. I understand completely what you’re saying, I’m just choosing to be patient through this season because of such huge losses (which may be partly caused by a combination of being a fan of manning and being a fan of the team - as you said).
 
deacvision7 said:
How can you give any sort of a pass for a terrible performance on the season to date? 8-7 with the OOC schedule played? I don't think that can be excused.

And again, I haven't watched a single minute of Wake basketball this season and about 5-10 minutes of college basketball total this year (Texas vs Kansas last week), so I have no idea how those losses went, how the wins went, what was done right, what was done wrong, any improvements, any increased deficiencies in the team, etc.

All I know is that if people were told in August that the Deacs would be 8-7 on January 7th with losses to Georgia Southern, Liberty, Drake, Houston, and Boston College they would have told the person telling them that they were absolutely nuts. But here we are and excuses are being made.
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All those teams have lower rated recruits than we do.
 
deacvision7 said:
How can you give any sort of a pass for a terrible performance on the season to date? 8-7 with the OOC schedule played? I don't think that can be excused.

And again, I haven't watched a single minute of Wake basketball this season and about 5-10 minutes of college basketball total this year (Texas vs Kansas last week), so I have no idea how those losses went, how the wins went, what was done right, what was done wrong, any improvements, any increased deficiencies in the team, etc.

All I know is that if people were told in August that the Deacs would be 8-7 on January 7th with losses to Georgia Southern, Liberty, Drake, Houston, and Boston College they would have told the person telling them that they were absolutely nuts. But here we are and excuses are being made.
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How can you post this after we made it to the Super Bowl?
 
College basketball is lucky their season is in the dead of winter. Otherwise, no one would watch it. Fucking terrible product today. I tried to watch Virginia the other day. They could go 30 and 0 and I would not buy a ticket to watch that shit. Wake Forest game plan is panic, drive, and pray you get fouled. 90 percent of the players are average to bad. Anyone who can average 19/10 is gone the next year. The Blue Bloods sell their academic soul for rent-a-player programs. It's just awful.
 
macktheknife said:
College basketball is lucky their season is in the dead of winter. Otherwise, no one would watch it. Fucking terrible product today. I tried to watch Virginia the other day. They could go 30 and 0 and I would not buy a ticket to watch that shit. Wake Forest game plan is panic, drive, and pray you get fouled. 90 percent of the players are average to bad. Anyone who can average 19/10 is gone the next year. The Blue Bloods sell their academic soul for rent-a-player programs. It's just awful.
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So true.
 
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