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Thread: Danny Manning Credibility Watch

  1. #41
    So the worst case scenario for 2016 is this:

    We will have two 4 star point guards in the backcourt, who will probably play together often considering Manning's style. From what I have seen, both will immediately be better ball handlers than anyone we have now, and Chill will be one of our best shooters. Wilbekin will be a junior, and from what we have seen will be a very solid contributor. When we need size, Hudson will be available, and should be very solid as well.

    Down low we will finally have a real 5 in Moore, who is listed as one of the top 10 players at that position, and another 4 star in Collins. Collins is very young, but looks excellent. I am excited to see what happens when our "bigs" get to play alongside a real center. Assuming Dinos is still here, we will be able to create some serious advantages matchup wise.

    This is the worst case scenario, as of December 2014. Let's see who other than Chill ends up joining the 2016 class. With the projected lineup that year already, it shouldn't be too hard to get some big signings (WCA please).

    The moral of the story for some of you is to chill the fuck out and be patient.

  2. #42

  3. #43
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    Wellman hd success dumping Odom and bringing in Prosser. He figured he could do it again, especially since he had picked [name redacted] as his fallback years earlier.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by deacvision7 View Post
    Such a horrible argument considering who we ended up with after giving REDACTED 4 years.


    Coaches are arrogant and think, "I can turn that situation around, that other guy isn't as good as I am." They don't think, "oh man, I better not take a shot at a power conference school in a hotbed of basketball recruiting because the previous guy went 21-46 (5-27 in conference) and got fired. That could happen to me!"


    If you go 21-46 while not on sanctions of any sort, your ass deserves to be fired. That is atrocious.
    In a vacuum, yes. Let's not delude ourselves and thing that coaching at Wake is the same at coaching at any other school. Recruiting here is an uphill battle. Stack that on a coach feeling the AD won't give him time to succeed and you have a problem.

    Don't get me wrong, hiring [name redacted] was a tremendous mistake. Firing him after year 2 would've been also, unless you have another coach in hand. Both of these problems are directly on Wellman.

  5. #45
    Not what the board wants to hear, but this year is 100% a hall pass. These are not his players except the transfers, and those were last minute had to fill slots invitations. DM has a great group coming in next season, and it will only get better from there. Next year will have some fiascos as well, but they will be made by freshman and sub par players. The real change will be in 2 years, and with recruiting going the way it has so far I think DM will prove himself.

    Yes, there should have been some hard coaching corrections to the instances in the original OP, but if you come down too hard on the few talented players on the squad and “lose” them this team could implode.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by bym051d View Post
    In a vacuum, yes. Let's not delude ourselves and thing that coaching at Wake is the same at coaching at any other school. Recruiting here is an uphill battle. Stack that on a coach feeling the AD won't give him time to succeed and you have a problem.

    Don't get me wrong, hiring [name redacted] was a tremendous mistake. Firing him after year 2 would've been also, unless you have another coach in hand. Both of these problems are directly on Wellman.
    We could have had Manning in 2011 or 2012 just as easily as we got him in 2014.

    So why would firing REDACTED back then have been so bad? If we assume that Manning is the end result either way, does his two years coaching at Tulsa really matter? Instead, we got 2 more years of shitty REDACTED recruiting instead of starting the rebuild job before it became the dire situation we found ourselves in last spring.
    Football. Bloody Hell.

  7. #47
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    I definitely prefer the Manning who got experience being a head coach at Tulsa and taking a team to the NCAA tournament to the manning who was an assistant coach at Kansas.

  8. #48
    My point is, if you know you have a bad situation you change it. You don't say, "oh man, this sucks, but I'm scared of change because it could be worse!" That is a chicken shit attitude and gets you into trouble.


    But we agree that Wellman is the main one to blame, it sounds like. That guy has gutted our basketball program. Total disgrace of an AD.
    Football. Bloody Hell.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by BiffTannen View Post
    I definitely prefer the Manning who got experience being a head coach at Tulsa and taking a team to the NCAA tournament to the manning who was an assistant coach at Kansas.
    You've got a coach that played at a one of the blue blood programs in college basketball, was an assistant at that program, and got a couple of years head coaching experience and had success at a tough place to win. There are risks with the Manning hire, but I like that resume a whole heck of a lot better than a certain coach that had a lot of head coaching experience with little success.
    boorish ruffian

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by bym051d View Post
    Recruiting here is an uphill battle.
    An uphill battle compared to the traditional top 10 programs? Sure. But, but otherwise, recruiting to Wake is on par with or massively easier than most schools we play. Pre-Buzz we were easily one of the top 25 teams in nation during the Odom/Skip/Dino years when looking at the number of weeks spent ranked in the top 25, top 10, #1, etc.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by liveanddiedeac View Post
    You've got a coach that played at a one of the blue blood programs in college basketball, was an assistant at that program, and got a couple of years head coaching experience and had success at a tough place to win. There are risks with the Manning hire, but I like that resume a whole heck of a lot better than a certain coach that had a lot of head coaching experience with little success.
    Of course you do. We all do. It's not even in question. But hiring Manning wasn't really an option in 2010, he was still two years away from getting the job at Tulsa.

  12. #52
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    Its always darkest before the dawn...

  13. #53
    [name redacted] inherited garbage, did nothing to fix it before his first season, then recruited nobody for his 2nd season.

    Manning inherited garbage, brought in 4 guys immediately - 3 of whom are in the top 6 players on the team, and has an excellent class coming in next year with great potential brewing for 2016 as well.

    Coaching matters, but players matter more. Eight McDonalds All Americans makes any coach look good. So will guys like Collins, Crawford, Moore, Chill, Giles, etc.

    Stretches of bad basketball from guys who have played together for a few months and are questionable ACC players shouldn't damage Manning's credibility anywhere close to how the above strengthens it.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by BiffTannen View Post
    Of course you do. We all do. It's not even in question. But hiring Manning wasn't really an option in 2010, he was still two years away from getting the job at Tulsa.
    Hiring a guy with 2 years head coaching experience to clean up the mess REDACTED left here at Wake wasn't really an option either, but it happened.

    My point is that giving REDACTED the extra years didn't help us get any better of a coach than if we would have fired him as soon as it become glaringly obvious that he wasn't a good coach. This whole notion that firing a coach that failed will stop other coaches from wanting the job is complete horseshit.

    Wellman firing Dino after progressing deeper into the year every season and being 30 games above .500 might turn off a few coaches, however.



    Ron Wellman hasn't made a good decision for Wake Forest basketball since he hired Skip Prosser in 2001. That is coming up on 14 years ago in a few months.
    Football. Bloody Hell.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by DCDeac View Post
    [name redacted] inherited garbage, did nothing to fix it before his first season, then recruited nobody for his 2nd season.

    Manning inherited garbage, brought in 4 guys immediately - 3 of whom are in the top 6 players on the team, and has an excellent class coming in next year with great potential brewing for 2016 as well.

    Coaching matters, but players matter more. Eight McDonalds All Americans makes any coach look good. So will guys like Collins, Crawford, Moore, Chill, Giles, etc.

    Stretches of bad basketball from guys who have played together for a few months and are questionable ACC players shouldn't damage Manning's credibility anywhere close to how the above strengthens it.
    I'm not saying the trolling comparison by Moonzzzz is 100% accurate at all, but Sidney Lowe could recruit talent to NC State and ended up doing fuck all with it.
    Football. Bloody Hell.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCDeac View Post
    [name redacted] inherited garbage, did nothing to fix it before his first season, then recruited nobody for his 2nd season.

    Manning inherited garbage, brought in 4 guys immediately - 3 of whom are in the top 6 players on the team, and has an excellent class coming in next year with great potential brewing for 2016 as well.

    Coaching matters, but players matter more. Eight McDonalds All Americans makes any coach look good. So will guys like Collins, Crawford, Moore, Chill, Giles, etc.

    Stretches of bad basketball from guys who have played together for a few months and are questionable ACC players shouldn't damage Manning's credibility anywhere close to how the above strengthens it.
    Considering that Bz retained Dino's staff and re-recruited a big class kind of precludes him from cleaning house on day one. But that's more of Wellman's shit.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by RaleighTriad View Post
    I thought we went into the half with a fair chance of possibly winning even with the DT bad attitude. Two quick 3's that were not contested and a few timeouts later, it is a different game
    We were lucky to be in the game at half time. Extremely lucky.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by BiffTannen View Post
    Considering that Bz retained Dino's staff and re-recruited a big class kind of precludes him from cleaning house on day one. But that's more of Wellman's shit.
    I think it's obvious he didn't re-recruit anything. All we'd hear for years afterward was how those weren't "his type of players" and didn't fit his system. Plus they were hugely overrated and he was supposed to be a great talent-scout.

    If they're not your type of guys, ditch them. If they're overrated, ditch them. Manning knew we desperately needed shooting and brought in a point guard who can shoot it at the expense of losing highly-rated Shelton Mitchell who can't shoot and is now riding the bench at Vandy and has 1 three pointer in his last 5 games.

    Coaches are responsible for their recruits the year they take the reigns. Manning's vision is a hundred times more focused than Bz's.

  19. #59
    Wellman poisoned himself in the coaching community when he fired Dino. The way out for Wake is/was to get a new AD. Everything is/was downhill from that. But now Wellman has made new hires in FB and BB, and feels safe for four years until he retires. So there is nothing for the fans to do except hope for the best.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Go View Post
    Its always darkest before the dawn...



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