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Danny Manning Credibility Watch

donaldross said:
Exactly. Further to my point PH, if you happen upon one of the top 25 players of all-time—as has occurred amazingly twice for Wake Forest over the last quarter century—you will certainly win games.

Though clearly something was wrong institutionally (I contend stadium but clearly something). How could one not agree with the premise that something is wrong? On our roster over the last 22 seasons, we have had 8 first round draft picks, some quality coaches, & startlingly 2 of the greatest 25 basketball players of all-time. Half of the top 25 players ever never even played in college. And we have had 2 of the remaining half in just the last 25 years alone? Crazy.

In any event, from that luck, we have managed 1 Sweet 16 & 0 ACC title game appearances over 22 seasons!!

To think a hot coach could change this and make us achieve is not right. Could he improve us with some luck like landing the next Tim Duncan? Of course. But we have major institutional which have stunned our success even when we do get such luck.

We must overhaul the basketball program to get ready for 2025 and beyond. Stadium must be leveled at once.
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I would contend we've never had a great coach over the last 25 years. We had two solid coaches who won is two of the best players ever to play the game. And then we had a poor coach who won almost 10 years ago with 4 guys still in the NBA and a few other guys who are still play pro ball. And we followed that up with two of the worst coaches the ACC has ever seen in the last 25 years.

jaybone said:
Your response is checkers, half baked checkers. I was rwferring to finding an elite basketball coach to lead the program for the next 15+ years.

You keep bringing it back to a referendum on manning. We should be strategizing on how to hire the next jay wright. Not burn it down and then go from there. That's what companies do. The board needs to first move well man aside before doing anything w manning.

Manning may end up being an okay hire lookingy back I5 years. His squeaky cleanness is an asset
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Wellman isn't going anywhere. That's a reality. This idea that he's going to retire any minute is wishful thinking. His job is safe. Firing a bad coach is not burning it all down. Firing a bad coach is the first step to getting the next Jay Wright.

If you have a bad girlfriend, you don't stay with her and strategize how you're going to get a better one. You dump her and move on. You don't think "Man, if I dumb my bad girlfriend, nobody's going to want to go out with me."
 
PhDeac said:
I would contend we've never had a great coach over the last 25 years. We had two solid coaches who won is two of the best players ever to play the game. And then we had a poor coach who won almost 10 years ago with 4 guys still in the NBA and a few other guys who are still play pro ball. And we followed that up with two of the worst coaches the ACC has ever seen in the last 25 years.



Wellman isn't going anywhere. That's a reality. This idea that he's going to retire any minute is wishful thinking. His job is safe. Firing a bad coach is not burning it all down. Firing a bad coach is the first step to getting the next Jay Wright.

If you have a bad girlfriend, you don't stay with her and strategize how you're going to get a better one. You dump her and move on. You don't think "Man, if I dumb my bad girlfriend, nobody's going to want to go out with me."
Click to expand...

Bad analogy. Again, you are playing checkers with me and I don't want to play checkers. If I date the same type of women and then 4 year into that relationship, I grow tired and want more. and I do this over and over, then I need to examine my "type," and either break through and stick with the girlfriend to try and build something past my fear or outsource my next girlfriend search to a firm. Period.

See my post above. You don't have to retire Wellman, you need to hire the next AD under him and give that man or woman all the hiring power. Seems unlikely to how we do things, but that is what our "board" should do with their CEO at least as it relates to hoops.
 
PhDeac said:
If you have a bad girlfriend, you don't stay with her and strategize how you're going to get a better one. You dump her and move on. You don't think "Man, if I dumb my bad girlfriend, nobody's going to want to go out with me."
Click to expand...

This is actually how a lot of people *do* think. Stereotypically women.
 
donaldross said:
Exactly. Further to my point PH, if you happen upon one of the top 25 players of all-time—as has occurred amazingly twice for Wake Forest over the last quarter century—you will certainly win games.

Though clearly something was wrong institutionally (I contend stadium but clearly something). How could one not agree with the premise that something is wrong? On our roster over the last 22 seasons, we have had 8 first round draft picks, some quality coaches, & startlingly 2 of the greatest 25 basketball players of all-time. Half of the top 25 players ever never even played in college. And we have had 2 of the remaining half in just the last 25 years alone? Crazy.

In any event, from that luck, we have managed 1 Sweet 16 & 0 ACC title game appearances over 22 seasons!!

To think a hot coach could change this and make us achieve is not right. Could he improve us with some luck like landing the next Tim Duncan? Of course. But we have major institutional which have stunned our success even when we do get such luck.

We must overhaul the basketball program to get ready for 2025 and beyond. Stadium must be leveled at once.
Click to expand...

This is your best post on this and I do agree with this.
 
jaybone said:
Your response is checkers, half baked checkers. I was rwferring to finding an elite basketball coach to lead the program for the next 15+ years.

You keep bringing it back to a referendum on manning. We should be strategizing on how to hire the next jay wright. Not burn it down and then go from there. That's what companies do. The board needs to first move well man aside before doing anything w manning.

Manning may end up being an okay hire lookingy back I5 years. His squeaky cleanness is an asset
Click to expand...

There is not a lot to argue with here, but what are the chances that the board actually moves Wellman aside in the next two years? If 2018 or 2019 is Wellman's last calendar year as Wake's AD, keeping Manning on board for now is an OK move regardless of whether or not he is a good coach. If Wellman is there for the foreseeable future we should have moved on from Manning in March, because the evidence suggests that he is good at only one aspect of the college HC job.
 
birdman said:
There is not a lot to argue with here, but what are the chances that the board actually moves Wellman aside in the next two years? If 2018 or 2019 is Wellman's last calendar year as Wake's AD, keeping Manning on board for now is an OK move regardless of whether or not he is a good coach. If Wellman is there for the foreseeable future we should have moved on from Manning in March, because the evidence suggests that he is good at only one aspect of the college HC job.
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Honestly, I have no idea. The problem is that most of the influential in the alumni association have much more in common with Wellman than with whomever they would bring in. Only in Shah is that not true. He has some experience in upheaval within an organization in the Hawks when Danny Ferry did his racist dance on a conference call, so maybe he can be point here. He's put up enough money to earn that role should he have time to fight for it.
 
The guy is 70. It is very possible that he will want to retire soon. I don’t think it’s wishful thinking to say that. My concern is that he won’t retire as long as the basketball program is in bad shape, which is bad because his age will definitely be a mark against the program if he is still the AD next time we make a coaching change.
 
He’s only 70. And he can effectively retire on the job.
 
Not really sure where you get that idea. I am sure he can get away with slowing down but that’s very different from actually retiring.
 
scooter84 said:
I don't know the answer but I wonder how many ADs of power 5 schools are over 70?
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From a study done in 2014.

Wong-chart-1.ashx


https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2014/06/09/In-Depth/Wong-column.aspx
 
YankeeInAtlanta said:
Expect Wake to bring Sandy Barbour back home after Wellman retires in 2025.
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Didn’t know who she is. Had no idea an alum was the AD there. She played field hockey and basketball at Wake.
 
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