• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Danny Manning Credibility Watch

The chance of any ACC school making a home run hire based on today's landscape is slim. To me over the past 7 years coaches in the ACC fall into 3 categories:

Elite (tenure, success but all will need new coaches in the next few years...same hiring formula will no longer work)
K - HOF
Roy - HOF
Pitino - HOF
Boeheim - HOF

Upgrade hires (came in and improved the program, regular NCAA appearances and competing and winning ACC Championships)
Larranaga
Gott
Bennett
Brey
Dixon
Hamilton
Buzz - not quite yet on the upgrade hire list but has some good wins and put some excitement back in a dead program

Wish and a hope hires (the only way to break through is to take someone's place in the upper 2 categories...Their schools have lost their luster or never hd it)
Gregory - They stuck with him too long...like wake once a proud program
Christian - 2nd BC coach in the past 5 years and is actually worse than the guy he replaced...they probably miss Skinner
Brownell - First season good then down from there
Bizz - Shit Show
Manning - Post season or competing for an ACC Championship no where in sight...Wake is no longer relevant on the college BB stage

We're about to finish our 6th year without a postseason berth. Most of us believe that will go to 7 and likely 8. The only way to climb out of the ditch in today's landscape is for us to sign a couple MCD AA's or a couple top 15 back to back recruiting classes.

People talk about how great DM is recruiting but we're so accustomed to crap we think top 25 classes are good. Dino, Skip and Odom were all much better recruiters in year 2.

Like all of us I really want to be back in the Joel and experience the magic of Chill, TD, J Howard and CP3.

What I hang on Wellman is a total mismanagement of the program, not understanding what keeping Buzz beyond 2 years would do to us and lastly having no sound strategy on how to build and maintain a program. What he has done is fleeced the pockets of donors and built facilities with so far no return on investment.
 
The word on Wellman seems to be out regardless. The whisper campaign against Dino that he used to justify the [Redacted] hire seems to have made it's way through coaching circles.

Yeah, if the reports from posters at that time were correct we got rejected from candidates that Wake Forest basketball in the ACC should have been able to get. And I don't have any reason to really doubt them because the same posters said Danny Manning was the only person left on the B/C list well before any media connected him to the job.
 
After Syracuse wins tonight, V Tech will be 12-11. Wake is hovering around .500 & the fas are ready to light the program on fire, but at the same time are praising a coach who is doing the exact same thing. Why is 12-11 for Buzz so exciting & drawing envy from some of you? I would hope no Wake fan is satisfied at this point, but at the same time I surely am not envious of being 12-11 either.
 
Honest question: For those of you that are confident that Wellman would be on his way out if Manning can't turn it around in the next 12 months, what gives you that impression?

The impression I get is that Wellman is fairly insulated and has support from the administration, the blue-hairs, etc.
 
The word on Wellman seems to be out regardless. The whisper campaign against Dino that he used to justify the [name redacted] hire likely did was more damage than firing the huge dumpster fire of a failure that was/is [name redacted] after year two ever could have.

agree with this.

wellman fired a "successful" coach. fans will argue that point but imagine being a coach and ask yourself if you want to work for a guy that fired a coach that won 60% of their games. he then claims it was for not winning... uh post season that's it. then hires [Redacted] coming off losing 60% of his games with no post season winning/playing experience. that is an enormous issue to overcome and the only way you do it is to over pay.

fire [Redacted] after 2 years and no one in college bball is surprised. or worried about the short hook.

if manning turns this around (and i am undecided about that) it won't be soon. two years in and we are, at best, treading water. we are looking at fighting for an ncaa birth 2 years from now... if that.

lost decade indeed. you can't replace those fans and that support money for a small school like wake without gaining a ton of band wagon fans.
 
lost decade indeed. you can't replace those fans and that support money for a small school like wake without gaining a ton of band wagon fans.

We better upgrade our facilities now, because there's going to be a black hole of DC support once the [name redacted] generation and beyond reaches their 30-40's. Hell, a large percentage of grads I know who are already in that age range and matriculated under Skip/Grobe, attended the Orange Bowl and made it back to W-S for CP3 games don't have any interest in giving to the DC based on the way Wellman handled the end of Grobe's career and the last two basketball hires. We're looking at a 20+ year gap in committed fans to contribute to the DC.
 
We better upgrade our facilities now, because there's going to be a black hole of DC support once the [name redacted] generation and beyond reaches their 30-40's. Hell, a large percentage of grads I know who are already in that age range and matriculated under Skip/Grobe, attended the Orange Bowl and made it back to W-S for CP3 games don't have any interest in giving to the DC based on the way Wellman handled the end of Grobe's career and the last two basketball hires. We're looking at a 20+ year gap in committed fans to contribute to the DC.

So those currently funding projects and donating to the DC need to contribute more to cover the shortfall from other alumni who refuse to give because of the way Wellman handled Grobe and the last 2 bball hires?

Makes sense.
 
Whit Babcock had that locked down long before it was announced. Buzz wasn't happy at Marquette and Babcock knew it. He called him and offered him and Buzz almost immediately accepted. He was closing on his house the day of the introduction press conference if that tells you anything.

Yep... Buzz actually took a pay cut because of concerns he had maintaining his success at Marquette.

Mick Cronin was the go-between as the Va Tech AD (Whit Babcock) was formerly at Cincy.
 
After Syracuse wins tonight, V Tech will be 12-11. Wake is hovering around .500 & the fas are ready to light the program on fire, but at the same time are praising a coach who is doing the exact same thing. Why is 12-11 for Buzz so exciting & drawing envy from some of you? I would hope no Wake fan is satisfied at this point, but at the same time I surely am not envious of being 12-11 either.

Sure, but, Williams has won an ACC road game already and they beat us in the ACC Tourney last year.
 
After Syracuse wins tonight, V Tech will be 12-11. Wake is hovering around .500 & the fas are ready to light the program on fire, but at the same time are praising a coach who is doing the exact same thing. Why is 12-11 for Buzz so exciting & drawing envy from some of you? I would hope no Wake fan is satisfied at this point, but at the same time I surely am not envious of being 12-11 either.

I understand where you are coming from but you realize that the VT basketball job was basically equal to the Duke football job before Cutcliffe was hired? The difference between VT and us is that VT is a total rebuild where Wake choose to move into long term rebuilding mode by hanging onto [Redacted] and making a panic hire.
 
I think the next 9 games will tell as much about Manning as the last 9. Hopefully, this is the lowest point of the season. If we can finish 6 - 3, and especially if we can snag 2 games in the ACCT, then I think this thread will cool off a lot. Unfortunately, that would require our team to have mental fortitude that has not yet been displayed. If we finish worse than 4 - 5, then I will be concerned...Though, tbh, I will probably just hedge further into the DT and CMM are losers camp.

Tonight should be a very good indicator of what we will see the rest of the season.
 
Last edited:
I think the next 9 games will tell as much about Manning as the last 9. Hopefully, this is the lowest point of the season. If we can finish 6 - 3, and especially if we can snag 2 games in the ACCT, then I think this thread will cool off a lot. Unfortunately, that would require our team to have mental fortitude that has not yet been displayed. If we finish worse than 4 - 5, then I will be concerned...Though, tbh, I will probably just hedge further into the DT and CMM are losers camp.

Tonight should be a very good indicator of what we will see the rest of the season.

For as bad as the first half of ACC play was, our next 6 games (and 8 of our next 10) are against teams outside of Kenpom's top 40. Our record against such teams this year is 9-2, including 5-1 away from home. I'm not sure if we are mentally capable of bouncing back from the last few weeks, but the schedule is there for the taking if we are.
 
So those currently funding projects and donating to the DC need to contribute more to cover the shortfall from other alumni who refuse to give because of the way Wellman handled Grobe and the last 2 bball hires?

Makes sense.

Makes perfect sense. That's sort of the way things work. People tend to not buy tickets to and donate money to athletic departments they don't believe are being managed well. I can think of numerous long-time DC supporters and season ticket holders who are no longer either.

As for the last few classes to come through Wake...if you matriculated at Wake during a time when it appears as if athletics are unimportant to the administration and the school as a whole, why, 15 years later, would you find athletics to be something important to give to and support? Support is built by winning. Winning, or even competing, is something we haven't done in quite a while.

I'm sorry that it's such a hard concept for you to grasp. Should I use smaller words and pictures next time?
 
Last edited:
I think the next 9 games will tell as much about Manning as the last 9. Hopefully, this is the lowest point of the season. If we can finish 6 - 3, and especially if we can snag 2 games in the ACCT, then I think this thread will cool off a lot. Unfortunately, that would require our team to have mental fortitude that has not yet been displayed. If we finish worse than 4 - 5, then I will be concerned...Though, tbh, I will probably just hedge further into the DT and CMM are losers camp.

Tonight should be a very good indicator of what we will see the rest of the season.

I'm interested in the next 9 games, especially seeing more of Moore and Collins. I was encouraged that DM actually sat CMM down in the last game instead of sticking with him no matter what. I want to continue to see Crawford taking over. I hope DM makes them practice playing zone D more, b/c we certainly aren't a good man to man team.

I may be overly optimistic, but I am intrigued by our young core, and when you realize we'll be adding 5 players who hopefully will continue to prove our coaching staff's good eye for talent, I have hope for the future (but just hoping for .500 this year).
 
Makes perfect sense. That's sort of the way things work. People tend to not buy tickets to and donate money to athletic departments they don't believe are being managed well. I can think of numerous long-time DC supporters and season ticket holders who are no longer either.

As for the last few classes to come through Wake...if you matriculated at Wake during a time when it appears as if athletics are unimportant to the administration and the school as a whole, why, 15 years later, would you find athletics to be something important to give to and support? Support is built by winning. Winning, or even competing, is something we haven't done in quite a while.

The decision to attend games, buy season tix, and donate is up to each individual. Each person is free to make his/her own decision on how to spend time, money, etc.

But you are proposing that others should pick up the tab while you are drinking on the house and at the same time deciding whether to throw down a few bucks for a tip if the liquor is up to your standards.

Hopefully our top donors don't take the Racer strategy and wait for the winning first before writing a check as nothing screams successful athletic program like shitty facilities and barely covering the cost of athletic scholarships.

That's sort of the way things work.
 
But you are proposing that others should pick up the tab while you are drinking on the house and at the same time deciding whether to throw down a few bucks for a tip if the liquor is up to your standards.

Hopefully our top donors don't take the Racer strategy and wait for the winning first before writing a check as nothing screams successful athletic program like shitty facilities and barely covering the cost of athletic scholarships.

LOL. You really latched onto my half tongue in cheek statement about getting while the getting's good and turned it into some sort of semi-political stance on freeloading or drinking...or something.

It's really pretty simple: folks giving money for these big projects now won't be around forever and the next generation of big donors very well may not materialize. Some of the big donors and many of the mid-tier donors of the recent past aren't big donors, or donors at all, anymore. Many would be donors from recent graduating classes will never become donors because they have almost zero fond memories of Wake Forest football or basketball during their time at Wake.

It's reality that an extended period of no success in football and basketball could have major consequences in the future. If you want to twist that into me encouraging others to walk out on their bar tabs or some other strange analogy, carry on with your OWG bad self.
 
Expecting this team to finish the season 6-3 is a pipedream. Two of those games are completely unwinnable (@Duke & @Pitt). That means we would have to win 6 of the other 7 games....and that includes road games with NC State & Georgia Tech and a home game against a team that just beat us by 23 points (Notre Dame). And sweep the other four home games against Virginia Tech, Boston College, Florida State & Clemson...who is favored by 2 points tonight.

What has this team done in its first 9 conference games....where it went 1-8....that would give anyone reason to believe that it would go 6-3 in its last 9 games?
 
Back
Top