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Thread: Danny Manning Credibility Watch

  1. #121
    The only program to finish each of the last 10 years in the top 20 is Kansas. I don't think anyone expects us to be Kansas.

  2. #122
    are you suggesting u. of san francisco isn't a top 20 program?

  3. #123
    Frederic Fuckin' Chopin Why the Deac Not's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=RChildress107;1983081]Um who gives a fuck what happened in 1936 or 1953. Our recruits parents weren't even alive then./QUOTE]

    Yes, because I wrote this to dissuade potential recruits.

  4. #124
    Frederic Fuckin' Chopin Why the Deac Not's Avatar
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    Call me LOWF if you want, but if your expectation is the NCAAT 4 out of every 5 years, you're probably gonna be a bit disappointed. That's a nice goal, but a more realistic expectation would be 2 or 3 every 5 years. With stability over the long-term and the right coach, perhaps we'll get back to that 14/20 peak. Until we show that we can actually recruit more than just one occasional good shooter every few years, then I certainly won't get my hopes up.

    I think Danny can resurrect the program considering his early success on the recruiting trail, but I also realize that achieving what Dave Odom did in a tougher, 15 team conference that now includes Syracuse, L'ville, Pitt and ND will be quite the challenge.

    This year, let's just hope we get better at team defense and stop letting teams jack up wide open 3's all game long. Especially considering our inability to take care of the ball on offense and Coach's propensity for pushing tempo.

  5. #125
    IIRC, Sagarin did a ranking of all D1 basketball programs three or four years ago. He went back to 1939 when the NCAA tournament began and ranked teams for ten year periods and since 1939. We were in the top 20 for 1990-99 and 2000-09. Our overall rank for the 70 year period was 39 (IIRC), which today means you are a strong NCAA bubble team. I suppose there are some former Bzdelick supporters who are enjoying the present difficulties of the basketball team in hopes of saying "I told you so". Others probably know much less about CBB than they think they know and others have little patience and like to complain. I had hoped for a better start to the year and thought we could win 16-17 games. We still might. I suspect my appraisal of returning talent was too optimistic or I was so tired of watching the ineptitude of the past four years that wish full thinking took over. Who cares? Danny Manning has his work cut out for him. He wasn't my first choice as a replacement but I like his resume and believe he will return WFU BB to a competitive level of the 20 years preceding our prior coach. He needs time. He needs the support and patience of Demon Deacon BB fans. He might be the gem we all wish for but still needs a few cuts and more polishing to show his brilliance. Time will tell.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackjackMc View Post
    IIRC, Sagarin did a ranking of all D1 basketball programs three or four years ago. He went back to 1939 when the NCAA tournament began and ranked teams for ten year periods and since 1939. We were in the top 20 for 1990-99 and 2000-09. Our overall rank for the 70 year period was 39 (IIRC), which today means you are a strong NCAA bubble team. I suppose there are some former Bzdelick supporters who are enjoying the present difficulties of the basketball team in hopes of saying "I told you so". Others probably know much less about CBB than they think they know and others have little patience and like to complain. I had hoped for a better start to the year and thought we could win 16-17 games. We still might. I suspect my appraisal of returning talent was too optimistic or I was so tired of watching the ineptitude of the past four years that wish full thinking took over. Who cares? Danny Manning has his work cut out for him. He wasn't my first choice as a replacement but I like his resume and believe he will return WFU BB to a competitive level of the 20 years preceding our prior coach. He needs time. He needs the support and patience of Demon Deacon BB fans. He might be the gem we all wish for but still needs a few cuts and more polishing to show his brilliance. Time will tell.
    HWSNBN and Ron Wellman skullfucked the program into oblivion after Dino was cut loose. I didn't have a problem with Dino being gone but the way it was handled afterwards really stung me. Then there was the Stetson game... I was really hoping that it was just an exhibition instead of one that counted but that was not to be... 4 lost years... I just want things to get turned around so that we don't end up with a lost decade.

  7. #127
    Frederic Fuckin' Chopin Why the Deac Not's Avatar
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    39th or Top 40ish is certainly good enough for me, and it seems more than reasonable as a year to year baseline.

    Just so tragic the depths to which the program sunk. Even the occasional sub-100 season might be understandable if the average result would at least have us in the conversation as a post-season team. I'm certainly not trying to tell anyone "I told you so" but simply relate that my perspective has changed. Guess I have let the Bzfuck years really damage my a) ability to become invested let alone b) expect anything more. But it has made me even more appreciative of the preceding 20 years, to the point where I'd be nearly ecstatic with being half as good as we were on average under Odom\Prosser\Dino.

  8. #128
    The pre-Odom fans definitely have a very low opinion on Wake Forest as a basketball school, that is for sure.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Why the Deac Not View Post
    Call me LOWF if you want, but if your expectation is the NCAAT 4 out of every 5 years, you're probably gonna be a bit disappointed. That's a nice goal, but a more realistic expectation would be 2 or 3 every 5 years.
    Quote Originally Posted by Why the Deac Not View Post
    39th or Top 40ish is certainly good enough for me, and it seems more than reasonable as a year to year baseline.
    So a reasonable expectation of our year to year baseline is squarely on the right side of the bubble. Yet we can only expect to make the tournament 2 out of every 5 years? I'm guessing Math wasn't your favorite subject in school.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Why the Deac Not View Post
    Call me LOWF if you want, but if your expectation is the NCAAT 4 out of every 5 years, you're probably gonna be a bit disappointed. That's a nice goal, but a more realistic expectation would be 2 or 3 every 5 years. With stability over the long-term and the right coach, perhaps we'll get back to that 14/20 peak.
    That was a "peak" during which we vastly underperformed our talent

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by dstanleywfu View Post
    I think this year was a throw away year from the start.. with the lack of talent on this team and a new coach, it is hard to imagine anyway we would have a winning record.. even coach k couldnt do shit with this talent.. now in 2 years and 2 good recruiting classes with actual nationally ranked players in the top 100.. we will be a better team with a better coach.. those who are actually thinking buzz is a better coach is ridiculous
    Spot on.

  12. #132
    Given how far our program had fallen, I actually think we did well to hire Manning. I think it is important for us to have a coach who knows how a winning program is managed from recruiting to running practices to actual game management. Manning's experience at Kansas both as player and coach will pay big dividends for us if we will give him time to build his own program and to build it his way.

  13. #133
    Frederic Fuckin' Chopin Why the Deac Not's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RChildress107 View Post
    So a reasonable expectation of our year to year baseline is squarely on the right side of the bubble. Yet we can only expect to make the tournament 2 out of every 5 years? I'm guessing Math wasn't your favorite subject in school.
    If you would actually take the time to recall some of our "bubble" years under Odom instead of simply being a snarky dick, we were left out of the tourney despite being 4th in the ACC at least twice. Being on the "right side of the bubble" does not mean you'll get in. You can be a Top 50 team with a pretty respectable record and still miss the tourney. 2 or 3 out of every 5 years would be pretty good for a lot of teams. And considering we are a lot closer to 150th as opposed to 50th at the present time, I'd say that would be more than acceptable by Manning's 3rd year.

    A 20 year stretch of success obviously isn't a predictor of future results. Success in CBB is more than a math problem. But over the last 50 years, we've been bad to mediocre more than we've been very good.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maztal View Post
    The pre-Odom fans definitely have a very low opinion on Wake Forest as a basketball school, that is for sure.
    8_Deacs

    And Wellman repeated the Staak era, so expect similar perspectives from 1_Deacs down the road.

  15. #135
    Cracks me up that people think Manning is responsible for Delaware State or Bz was responsible for Stetson. Disasters like that are left by the coaches that came before. It's where you are 2 years later that matters.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by mebanedeac View Post
    Given how far our program had fallen, I actually think we did well to hire Manning. I think it is important for us to have a coach who knows how a winning program is managed from recruiting to running practices to actual game management. Manning's experience at Kansas both as player and coach will pay big dividends for us if we will give him time to build his own program and to build it his way.
    +1. Kansas is #2 on RacerDeac's post. Second most wins in NCAA. Conference champion for the last ten years. Enough said.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Why the Deac Not View Post
    You're ranking Danny Manning 3rd or is this just a random listing not in any particular order.
    Random.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by RChildress107 View Post
    Um who gives a fuck what happened in 1936 or 1953. Our recruits parents weren't even alive then.

    It's ok to admit you are wrong. The run from 91-2010 (20 seasons) is far more relevant to how successful our program can be than what happened in the 1960's and 70's. If you can't see that then there's no point in really having this conversation.

    During those 20 years we were by any measure a top 25 program. Does this mean we will be in the top 25 every single year? No of course not. There are maybe 4 programs that can expect to never slip out on occasion.

    It does mean that 4 out of every 5 years we should expect to make the tournament (we went to 14 out of 20 prior to bz) and 2 or 3 out of every 5 years we should finish as a top 20 team (8 out of 20) with a chance to contend for a Final Four once out of every 5 years (5-6 out of 20 depending on how you feel about certain teams).

    I think you are confusing the expectation to be a top 20 program (something we were during the 20 years prior to bz) with the expectation to be in the top 20 every year (something maybe 5 programs have accomplished consistently over the last decade)
    This discussion has been painful. The numbers overwhelmingly back up what I've said.
    Last edited by RacerDeac; 12-04-2014 at 09:52 AM.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by RacerDeac View Post
    This discussion has been painful. The numbers overwhelmingly back up what I've said.
    What? You don't think our record 30 years before the ACC's first black player was allowed on the court isn't relevant?! Don't tell these guys!!!


  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by mebanedeac View Post
    Given how far our program had fallen, I actually think we did well to hire Manning. I think it is important for us to have a coach who knows how a winning program is managed from recruiting to running practices to actual game management. Manning's experience at Kansas both as player and coach will pay big dividends for us if we will give him time to build his own program and to build it his way.
    Why do you think the program fell?
    Football. Bloody Hell.

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