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Ongoing US GOP Debacle Thread: Seditious Republicans march toward authoritarianism

PhDeac said:
George Zimmerman said Trayvon Martin attacked him. That was considered more than enough evidence for Republicans to justify killing him.
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#anecdotes

The good doctor has quite the selective memory.

The state of FL prosecuted Zimmerman for second degree murder and the independent federal investigation led by the justice department found insufficient evidence that the killing of Martin was a hate crime.

But I'm sure Zimmerman's acquittal in state court and the Obama DOJ failing to make a case was just another example in the long line of vast right wing conspiracies.
 
Colonel Angus said:
#anecdotes

The good doctor has quite the selective memory.

The state of FL prosecuted Zimmerman for second degree murder and the independent federal investigation led by the justice department found insufficient evidence that the killing of Martin was a hate crime.

But I'm sure Zimmerman's acquittal in state court and the Obama DOJ failing to make a case was just another example in the long line of vast right wing conspiracies.
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Angus, that was my point. Zimmerman's word was sufficient evidence that he was justified to kill Trayvon Martin.
 
Highland Deac said:
Lindsey Graham was on ABC's This Week this morning, and he just came right out and said that he believes that Ford was "mistaken" in her accusations, and that she has "problems." I think every liberal knew that right-wingers, even the leaders of the GOP, would finally get there - they've mostly stopped saying they believe her story (probably doesn't play well with the base), and now they're just saying it was a case of mistaken identity or that she's got "problems" - the classic blaming-the-victim strategy that has worked so well before. I'm wondering how long it will be before we get to the slut-shaming part of the treatment.

ETA: I was rather amused when George Stephanopoulos asked Lindsey about Kavanaugh's blatantly partisan rant, and asked him if he that was a proper line for a supposedly non-partisan judge to take. Graham visibly flinched, then smiled, and more or less said that of course he's a partisan, but they're going to put him on the Court anyway and the Democrats are just going to have to live with it. What a great guy. I wonder if the contract Graham signed with Beelzebub giving him his soul when he dies is sitting in his office desk in DC.
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All too true.

This is what it looks like when dumbass blowhards control the rube brain trust...and eventually the damn government.
 
PhDeac said:
Angus, that was my point. Zimmerman's word was sufficient evidence that he was justified to kill Trayvon Martin.
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No it wasn’t, there was a lot of other evidence brought forward, lots of witnesses called, medical evidence, and beyond that you’re talking about a man accused of murder not having the burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt met. A more accurate metaphor would be to say just like Zimmerman, there isn’t sufficient evidence to suggest the accusations against Kavanaugh are even plausible, let alone true. You don’t get to just accuse someone of something with no supporting evidence at all aside from your word and expect ANYONE to believe you, especially when your story has massive holes in it.
To address the earlier HuffPo MotherJones perjury accusations- they are really really stupid. There’s a reason only extremist publications with zero credibility are reporting them. If you actually read his statements on each of these issues it’s pretty clear he was being truthful. This is aside of course from the ever important booting debate, I’m sure Urban Dictionary is admissible in court though so those perjury charges should be forthcoming.
 
TurtLocker said:
No it wasn’t, there was a lot of other evidence brought forward, lots of witnesses called, medical evidence, and beyond that you’re talking about a man accused of murder not having the burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt met. A more accurate metaphor would be to say just like Zimmerman, there isn’t sufficient evidence to suggest the accusations against Kavanaugh are even plausible, let alone true. You don’t get to just accuse someone of something with no supporting evidence at all aside from your word and expect ANYONE to believe you, especially when your story has massive holes in it.
To address the earlier HuffPo MotherJones perjury accusations- they are really really stupid. There’s a reason only extremist publications with zero credibility are reporting them. If you actually read his statements on each of these issues it’s pretty clear he was being truthful. This is aside of course from the ever important booting debate, I’m sure Urban Dictionary is admissible in court though so those perjury charges should be forthcoming.
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So, it makes you wonder why the Pubs didn’t call any of the additional witnesses to testify in congress under oath last week. Weird decision but it makes an FBI investigation warranted.
 
birdman said:
So, it makes you wonder why the Pubs didn’t call any of the additional witnesses to testify in congress under oath last week. Weird decision but it makes an FBI investigation warranted.
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Probably because those witnesses didn’t want to testify at the hearing and instead submitted written statements saying they didn’t know anything about the party Ford was talking about. They couldn’t exactly subpoena them, and the FBI can’t either, so they’ll get the same written statements in all likelihood.
 
Indications seem to be that the FBI investigation is only slightly less restricted than was the minimal Judiciary Committee “investigation”.


I guess we’ll just have to see.
 
Sexual assault allegations are almost always entirely "he said, she said" in nature. The incidence rate of false allegations is extremely low. In almost every scenario, women who allege sexual assault should be believed. Then, those allegation should be investigated, as it is generally very clear when there are inconsistencies in stories. Here, Blasey Ford had to my knowledge no inconsistencies from her allegations all the way through her testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee. Meanwhile, Kavanaugh had multiple inconsistencies in his testimony, has had multiple third parties confirm that he was not being forthcoming and truthful about questions asked of him, and in some cases, outright refused to answer questions the Committee asked of him.

These are objective facts, not partisan interpretations of what happened. This should be your starting point for analyzing credibility. Otherwise, you're arguing from your own personal biases.
 
TurtLocker said:
Probably because those witnesses didn’t want to testify at the hearing and instead submitted written statements saying they didn’t know anything about the party Ford was talking about. They couldn’t exactly subpoena them, and the FBI can’t either, so they’ll get the same written statements in all likelihood.
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The Senate can subpoena anyone they want. You are simply wrong.
 
TurtLocker said:
No it wasn’t, there was a lot of other evidence brought forward, lots of witnesses called, medical evidence, and beyond that you’re talking about a man accused of murder not having the burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt met. A more accurate metaphor would be to say just like Zimmerman, there isn’t sufficient evidence to suggest the accusations against Kavanaugh are even plausible, let alone true. You don’t get to just accuse someone of something with no supporting evidence at all aside from your word and expect ANYONE to believe you, especially when your story has massive holes in it.
To address the earlier HuffPo MotherJones perjury accusations- they are really really stupid. There’s a reason only extremist publications with zero credibility are reporting them. If you actually read his statements on each of these issues it’s pretty clear he was being truthful. This is aside of course from the ever important booting debate, I’m sure Urban Dictionary is admissible in court though so those perjury charges should be forthcoming.
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LOL. I don't remember the court of public opinion waiting for all this evidence before calling Zimmerman a hero.
 
AsesinoDeTortugas said:
Sexual assault allegations are almost always entirely "he said, she said" in nature. The incidence rate of false allegations is extremely low. In almost every scenario, women who allege sexual assault should be believed. Then, those allegation should be investigated, as it is generally very clear when there are inconsistencies in stories. Here, Blasey Ford had to my knowledge no inconsistencies from her allegations all the way through her testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee. Meanwhile, Kavanaugh had multiple inconsistencies in his testimony, has had multiple third parties confirm that he was not being forthcoming and truthful about questions asked of him, and in some cases, outright refused to answer questions the Committee asked of him.

These are objective facts, not partisan interpretations of what happened. This should be your starting point for analyzing credibility. Otherwise, you're arguing from your own personal biases.
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Here is a primary source: http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1077801210387747

10 year study concluded that 5.6% of rape accusations were deemed "false." They extrapolated and related to other studies and concluded that the false accusation rate is probably between 2% and 10%. Some of these false conclusions fall into a category where the accusations of rape turned out to be some other category of sexual assault not specifically rape. The FBI estimates the false rape accusation rate as 2%. So, given the available data there is a 90%-98% chance that Ford is telling the truth about Kavanaugh. Now, rape accusation denial rates are really really high...something like >99.99% are denied and many of those turn out to be true, 90-98% actually.
 
So at this point we’re saying that it’s rare for sexual assault allegations to be false, therefore we should just believe them all without looking for anything to corroborate them. If 2-8% of people have their lives ruined we’ll just call that collateral for having such a progressive society, fantastic idea, let’s apply it to all crime!
 
There were plenty of inconsistencies in Ford’s story, as well as inconveniently missing details, and a multitude of other things which make her testimony seem a bit off. If she had a single person, just one, that could say that during that time period she even mentioned the party she’d be a lot more credible. If one single human being could say “yes, she and Bret Kavanaugh were at the same house” it would be a lot more credible. At the moment I don’t think she can even prove Bret Kavanaugh knew her. If you really, seriously think that sexual assault convictions are handed out based on uncorroborated testimony from one person decades after the fact you are woefully unfamiliar with how the justice system works. If you really think that we need to alter our justice system to simply “believe women” you are absolutely insane.
 
Nobody moves goalposts or creates straw men like our old friend trying to sneak in from exile.
 
TurtLocker said:
So at this point we’re saying that it’s rare for sexual assault allegations to be false, therefore we should just believe them all without looking for anything to corroborate them. If 2-8% of people have their lives ruined we’ll just call that collateral for having such a progressive society, fantastic idea, let’s apply it to all crime!
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No, we are saying it is worth taking accusations seriously and investigating because at least 90% of rape allegations turn out to be true, despite nearly 100% being categorically denied.

Further, not being put on the supreme court does not mean your life is ruined. For example, I have never been put on the supreme court and my life is not ruined.
 
TurtLocker said:
There were plenty of inconsistencies in Ford’s story, as well as inconveniently missing details, and a multitude of other things which make her testimony seem a bit off. If she had a single person, just one, that could say that during that time period she even mentioned the party she’d be a lot more credible. If one single human being could say “yes, she and Bret Kavanaugh were at the same house” it would be a lot more credible. At the moment I don’t think she can even prove Bret Kavanaugh knew her. If you really, seriously think that sexual assault convictions are handed out based on uncorroborated testimony from one person decades after the fact you are woefully unfamiliar with how the justice system works. If you really think that we need to alter our justice system to simply “believe women” you are absolutely insane.
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Serious question: Who the fuck is convicting anybody in this instance?
 
birdman said:
No, we are saying it is worth taking accusations seriously and investigating because at least 90% of rape allegations turn out to be true, despite nearly 100% being categorically denied.

Further, not being put on the supreme court does not mean your life is ruined. For example, I have never been put on the supreme court and my life is not ruined.
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Yep, but you haven’t spent your life working as a Republican operative and then morphing into a poorly concealed partisan hack of a judge angling for the SC.
 
TurtLocker said:
So at this point we’re saying that it’s rare for sexual assault allegations to be false, therefore we should just believe them all without looking for anything to corroborate them. If 2-8% of people have their lives ruined we’ll just call that collateral for having such a progressive society, fantastic idea, let’s apply it to all crime!
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No. 94.4% of the women had their lives ruined.
 
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