Sargent: I want to bear down on the apocalyptic nature of these movements. Right now, various offshoots of this apocalyptic politics — for instance, the “great replacement theory” — are inspiring mass shootings and serious political violence.
Perlstein: If you think the stakes are whether civilization itself survives, and that you’re dealing with a cabal of shadowy enemies, of course you’re licensed to use any means to stop them.
If the stakes are racial replacement, and the shadowy enemies are the Jews said to be controlling the replacement of Whites,
then it’s okay to kill Jews. It’s
okay to shoot up Black churches. It’s
okay to shoot up a Walmart.
Sargent: Does the fact that Republican leaders aren’t unambiguously condemning these tendencies fit into a broader history, in which conservative elites have frequently failed to police extremists on the right?
Perlstein: One of the patterns since time immemorial is that mainstream conservative Republican leaders have fully understood that they benefit from these forces politically.
That was precisely the context for Barry Goldwater’s convention speech, when he said “extremism in defense of liberty is no vice.” That was his way of saying to the extremists: “I don’t intend to condemn you. I welcome you into our fold.”
And the extremists of that time were
burning down churches in Mississippi. The extremists of that time were
murdering civil rights workers and burying them under earthen dams. This was literally the same month as the Republican convention.
Sargent: Do you think that pattern has recurred over and over?
Perlstein: Ronald Reagan played the same game in 1966. He played it in 1980. Newt Gingrich played it. The people astroturfing the tea party played it. The people who thought they could use and control Donald Trump as their ally played it in 2016. Now they’re reaping the whirlwind.
One of the canny things that the Jan. 6 select committee is doing is establishing a direct connection between the Republican Party’s parliamentary and paramilitary wings. Like prosecutors, they’re saying, “Here are the individuals who communicated with people within the White House, in order to basically spur the mob to breach the Capitol.”