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Killing the IRS

WFFaithful said:
Nah, we're gonna cut the government down to size.
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The size of tax revenues are driven by the rate, but consumption taxes by definition will have the top 1% paying the lowest rates. Fantasies of 3rd world governments notwithstanding.
 
ChrisL68 said:
The size of tax revenues are driven by the rate, but consumption taxes by definition will have the top 1% paying the lowest rates. Fantasies of 3rd world governments notwithstanding.
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??
 
The lowest effective rates as a % of income. People with higher incomes save a higher percentage of their income.

If your only taxes are a percentage of consumption, then the people who are most able to bear taxes will pay the lowest percentage of their income.
 
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Spot the Wonder said:
Fair Tax is such a load of shit.
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Fair tax has some problems, but I could support a flat tax with a pretty large exemption up front so that a large chunk of taxpayers would pay nada. This keeps it somewhat progressive.

We also need to pull the cap on SS if we're going to keep that solvent. Im pretty conservative but I'm a big supporter of SS. It virtually eliminated poverty among the elderly.

A simple tax code means that the agency collecting the revenue can be much smaller and less intrusive. Call it whatever you want but a revenue collection agency has to exist.
 
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PhDeac said:
Sure. But that process does not include any type of interaction with IRS. It's not like they have trained monkeys pulling cash out of people's paychecks. They do have trained monkeys sending people checks.
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also have trained monkeys auditing
 
I claimed like 5 kids or something one year so that my withholding would be less. Total lie, and quite possibly illegal, but I was tired of giving those fucksticks an interest free loan every year. I ended up owing like $500.

Ph's view is, unfortunately, not uncommon. So many are accustomed to getting refunds that we view it as a gift or even come to rely on it as income during tax time. It is OUR money, not theirs. That is why we get a refund. If the car dealership overcharges us a couple grand on a car and then comes back in April and says, "Whoops! We fucked up! Here's a check!" we don't thank them. We report them to BBB or something of that nature and demand answers. Granted, many of the refunds result from interest deductions and things that aren't accounted for until the end of the year, so I can give them a pass on that.
 
EatLeadCommie said:
I claimed like 5 kids or something one year so that my withholding would be less. Total lie, and quite possibly illegal, but I was tired of giving those fucksticks an interest free loan every year. I ended up owing like $500.

Ph's view is, unfortunately, not uncommon. So many are accustomed to getting refunds that we view it as a gift or even come to rely on it as income during tax time. It is OUR money, not theirs. That is why we get a refund. If the car dealership overcharges us a couple grand on a car and then comes back in April and says, "Whoops! We fucked up! Here's a check!" we don't thank them. We report them to BBB or something of that nature and demand answers. Granted, many of the refunds result from interest deductions and things that aren't accounted for until the end of the year, so I can give them a pass on that.
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I file single non-head of household with no dependents and claim 6 personal allowances on my W-4. It's not illegal, and the W-4 has a separate little form to use to adjust from just counting number of personal allowances if you are planning on itemizing deductions. If you itemize, you pretty much have to adjust your withholding to get anything close to accurate. If I only claimed 1 personal allowance (or even 2), I would end up with an $8,000-$10,000 refund.
 
EatLeadCommie said:
I claimed like 5 kids or something one year so that my withholding would be less. Total lie, and quite possibly illegal, but I was tired of giving those fucksticks an interest free loan every year. I ended up owing like $500.

Ph's view is, unfortunately, not uncommon. So many are accustomed to getting refunds that we view it as a gift or even come to rely on it as income during tax time. It is OUR money, not theirs. That is why we get a refund. If the car dealership overcharges us a couple grand on a car and then comes back in April and says, "Whoops! We fucked up! Here's a check!" we don't thank them. We report them to BBB or something of that nature and demand answers. Granted, many of the refunds result from interest deductions and things that aren't accounted for until the end of the year, so I can give them a pass on that.
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That's not my view, dumbass. I basically made the same point you did except pointing out that it's strange people get so mad at an organization whose main job is cutting checks. It's not the IRS' fault people pay too much in taxes.
 
Wakelaw2006 said:
I file single non-head of household with no dependents and claim 6 personal allowances on my W-4. It's not illegal, and the W-4 has a separate little form to use to adjust from just counting number of personal allowances if you are planning on itemizing deductions. If you itemize, you pretty much have to adjust your withholding to get anything close to accurate. If I only claimed 1 personal allowance (or even 2), I would end up with an $8,000-$10,000 refund.
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Free money!
 
PhDeac said:
That's not my view, dumbass. I basically made the same point you did except pointing out that it's strange people get so mad at an organization whose main job is cutting checks. It's not the IRS' fault people pay too much in taxes.
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Sure it is. They set the witholding rates out higher than reality so that they know if someone accurately puts down they are married with 2 kids, or single with no kids, or whatever they actually are, that too much money will be withheld with respect to their probable tax bill. They are intentionally dishonest with the withholding rates to trick people into overpaying so that they don't have to chase them for cash at the end of the year if the person has lower deductions than average.
 
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2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Sure it is. They set the witholding rates out higher than reality so that they know if someone accurately puts down they are married with 2 kids, or single with no kids, or whatever they actually are, that too much money will be withheld with respect to their probable tax bill. They are intentionally dishonest with the withholding rates to trick people into overpaying so that they don't have to chase them for cash at the end of the year if the person has lower deductions than average.
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so you want the IRS to somehow calculate the exact amount a person will owe over the course of year, for every person who pays taxes
 
ImTheCaptain said:
so you want the IRS to somehow calculate the exact amount a person will owe over the course of year, for every person who pays taxes
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Apparently. He seems to want the IRS to reach into everyone's life to individually determine their taxes rather than to set a rate and allow us to decide how to adjust our withholding and report our taxes ourselves.
 
PhDeac said:
Apparently. He seems to want the IRS to reach into everyone's life to individually determine their taxes rather than to set a rate and allow us to decide how to adjust our withholding and report our taxes ourselves.
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They do, actually. He just wants them to do it one year ahead of schedule.
 
The withholding rules and exemptions are set forth in Internal Revenue Code (section 3401 et seq), not the tax regulations. In other words, if you think the withholding system is bogus or misleading, the guilty party is Congress, not the IRS.

That said, I think the existing tax system is ridiculous and that no sane human would design a taxation system like the one we now have as a rational way to raise money for the world's foremost democracy.
 
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jhmd2000 said:
They do, actually. He just wants them to do it one year ahead of schedule.
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Correct. Would it not be more accurate to use a withholding based of the actual taxpayer's tax to income ratio from the prior year as opposed a virtually arbitrary ratio purported to be the average of similarly situated people that doesn't take income or deductions into account in any way? Currently it is literally a wild guess.
 
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