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Pro Life / Pro Choice Debate

What would it matter? You said he didn't cite scripture or religion when he absolutely has, and many many times.


Not on this thread he hasn't. Not once. He's simply stated his opinion that abortion is murder and therefore wrong. That is certainly debatable. Personally, I do not approve of abortion if it is my family involved. I also believe I have no right to tell another woman what to do with her body, up until viability anyway.

But dismissing Wrangor's opinion simply due to what you believe to be the basis for it is disingenuous.
 
I'll keep beating my drum over here that to honestly, sincerely call yourself a believer in the sanctity of life, you cannot possibly support the death penalty or the invasion of another country where there would be one single civilian casualty. You cannot accept collateral damage of any kind to fight wars, despite the righteousness of your cause. Defending your own country from invaders hell bent on killing you would be the only acceptable scenario by which you could kill another human, it would seem.

The moment you accept the killing of a prisoner deems guilty in a court made up of mere mortals, or of killing innocents in a war of politics or expansion or financial gain, you surrender your moral authority on abortion, IMO. It seems very simple. If you believe in the sanctity of life, you are anti-killing of anyone unless they are killing you. Period.
 
I'll keep beating my drum over here that to honestly, sincerely call yourself a believer in the sanctity of life, you cannot possibly support the death penalty or the invasion of another country where there would be one single civilian casualty. You cannot accept collateral damage of any kind to fight wars, despite the righteousness of your cause. Defending your own country from invaders hell bent on killing you would be the only acceptable scenario by which you could kill another human, it would seem.

The moment you accept the killing of a prisoner deems guilty in a court made up of mere mortals, or of killing innocents in a war of politics or expansion or financial gain, you surrender your moral authority on abortion, IMO. It seems very simple. If you believe in the sanctity of life, you are anti-killing of anyone unless they are killing you. Period.

Sweet I still make the cut.
 
I'll keep beating my drum over here that to honestly, sincerely call yourself a believer in the sanctity of life, you cannot possibly support the death penalty or the invasion of another country where there would be one single civilian casualty. You cannot accept collateral damage of any kind to fight wars, despite the righteousness of your cause. Defending your own country from invaders hell bent on killing you would be the only acceptable scenario by which you could kill another human, it would seem.

The moment you accept the killing of a prisoner deems guilty in a court made up of mere mortals, or of killing innocents in a war of politics or expansion or financial gain, you surrender your moral authority on abortion, IMO. It seems very simple. If you believe in the sanctity of life, you are anti-killing of anyone unless they are killing you. Period.

It would seem that any morality should follow those basic rules. I do believe that it is biblical as well. Essentially, don't kill other than self defense. Anyone who believed otherwise would be supporting murder.
 
It would seem that any morality should follow those basic rules. I do believe that it is biblical as well. Essentially, don't kill other than self defense. Anyone who believed otherwise would be supporting murder.

And so it is difficult for me to buy the sanctimony from the American Political Right on abortion.

Wrangor, I believe, means what he says and i applaud his conviction for his belief. But if in his heart he supports any of this other killing, he is just as much of a murderer as those of us who support choice, I would reckon.
 
I understand your point, but I do not recall Wrangor advocating for any forms of killing. I could be wrong though.
 
I had it in whats left of my mind that he supported the Iraq War, the Vietnam War, and the death penalty. But I confuse posters a lot, and I'm drunk sometimes when I read the boards.
 
Maybe so. Wrangor, which wars if any are you in favor of? How about the death penalty?

State your position, sir.
 
I'll keep beating my drum over here that to honestly, sincerely call yourself a believer in the sanctity of life, you cannot possibly support the death penalty or the invasion of another country where there would be one single civilian casualty. You cannot accept collateral damage of any kind to fight wars, despite the righteousness of your cause. Defending your own country from invaders hell bent on killing you would be the only acceptable scenario by which you could kill another human, it would seem.

The moment you accept the killing of a prisoner deems guilty in a court made up of mere mortals, or of killing innocents in a war of politics or expansion or financial gain, you surrender your moral authority on abortion, IMO. It seems very simple. If you believe in the sanctity of life, you are anti-killing of anyone unless they are killing you. Period.

Are we to assume your beliefs are the polar opposite of Wrangor's? That there is no sanctity of life? That since you believe in "choice" for abortion, you are also ok with wars and death penalty? Do you expect the same consistency in opposite viewpoint?
 
The bible doesn't say thou shalt not kill (except in self defense) it says thou shalt not kill. Self defense is the law of man not God as far as I know.
 
Just to clarify though, you do also believe that women should be able to get an abortion if it threatens their safety right? I think you said that but I just wanted to be sure. It also goes along with your "absolute best option to save lives" exception.

I don't know if my ideals are inconsistent enough but I'm anti-death penalty, pro-choice, and I'm very anti-war.
 
This is such a false equivalency. You are equating judgement for a child raping murderer to the murder of a helpless, innocent child. Or a death in war because of a just cause (IE WWII - where we were fighting and killing Nazis in order to save lives) with the 50 million children we have aborted since Roe V. Wade. It is so silly it almost isn't worth a comment, but you have said this multiple times and so I figure I would address it. In no way are either of those two comparisons in any manner alike. I feel very comfortable in my position on war (which is war is only justified when it is the absolute best option to save lives) and my position on capital punishment (only in the most extreme cases and when the proof is unassailable) and feel no conflicting morality in my position on the horror of the sanctioned killing of pre-birth children.

I don't know. It seems your thick, black lines in the sand of what killing is ok and when...are actually arbitrary. I guess I need to understand who gets to decide when war is the "absolute best option to save lives." One person? A couple? A cross-functional, cross-gender, cross-ethnic panel of folks? You? Me? What is an "extreme" case where killing someone via capital punishment is ok? How do we know it is unassailable? Do I get to decide, do you, or do we vote and majority rules? Do other countries and other cultures have to do what we vote on?

Killing is...killing. I really, really don't know when life starts. I am 47 years old, went to Catholic school, have adult kids, and have thought about it and thought about it. I just don't know when it starts. I DO know, however, that any person on the other end of a gun/shell/bomb/chemical during warfare is alive. I would hope folks concerned with the sanctity of life would be, at least, AS concerned about them as they are about fetuses...
 
Abortion: When will we as a country wake up to the truth?

Read it again so you don't seem like such a fool.

Oh look another true believer who picks and chooses the scripture he obeys. Because that's how it works.

Your definitely headed to heaven 👍

As someone who grew up in the baptist church there is no bigger hypocrite than a 21st century upper-middle class American Christian. Next time you go to church look at the opulence. Think about all the money you waste on appearances and clergy salaries and ask yourself where Christ would want you to allocate those resource.

And then hang your head in shame.
 
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Just curious about this:

I see abortion as the forceful taking of lives without permission. It is the powerful taking life from the weak.

Why doesn't capital punishment meet this standard in Wrangorville?
 
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