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Pro Life / Pro Choice Debate

Maybe we should give women the same rights as landlords and fetuses the same rights as tenants.
 
scooter do you not have kids? if so, were you not at all present during the pregnancy?

pregnancy up through and after delivery is fucking terrifying

I have two grown daughters and a beautiful baby granddaughter. The only terrifying part for us was early on, worrying that something could go wrong. But of course, we were in the situation where we had planned for, and wanted, a baby.

I was present for everything - including watching a c-section. Most beautiful events I have ever seen. We were lucky in that my wife had mostly great pregnancies - other than the one girl being breech and causing the c-section.

My daughter had a devastating miscarriage before having our beautiful granddaughter. Watching my girl with her girl is the most joyful experience I can imagine.
 
Interesting story because moving forward your daughter in certain states is a criminal and could be prosecuted for felony murder.
 
Which is one reason why treating abortion as a private women’s issue was a bad tactical move that allowed shitty men with no clue to dominate public discourse. These conversations would be much different if scooter was regularly hearing women’s stories about their abortions instead of getting a steady diet of “right to life” discourse. Shitty men can demonize women as killing babies for convenient instead of listening to their stories.

Also if the only “fetal rights” they want is forcing women into labor, it’s not really about fetal rights.

The extent to which you and others here demonize those that have differing opinions is disheartening - and why the country is so polarized. Do you really think I don't realize many of these stories are heartbreaking? I am curious as to what you think I would hear that would make the conversation so different.

There are plenty of "shitty men" in power and making decisions for us all - on both sides of the aisle. But, having a different opinion from you about when a fetus is a baby worth protecting - does not make them all "shitty men".
 
Maybe we should give women the same rights as landlords and fetuses the same rights as tenants.

Ugggh, it can take forever to evict an unwanted tenant. Might need another analogy here.
 
Ugggh, it can take forever to evict an unwanted tenant. Might need another analogy here.

In Florida it takes an average of 15 days for a landlord to evict with or without kidneys. I looked it up before posting my great analogy.
 
Interesting story because moving forward your daughter in certain states is a criminal and could be prosecuted for felony murder.

I have heard this said before but I would like to see the statute that says that - have you seen one?
I wouldn't put it past some people to claim that but making it illegal to have a procedure after a miscarriage is nonsensical - the baby is no longer alive - there is no life to protect.
 
The extent to which you and others here demonize those that have differing opinions is disheartening - and why the country is so polarized. Do you really think I don't realize many of these stories are heartbreaking? I am curious as to what you think I would hear that would make the conversation so different.

There are plenty of "shitty men" in power and making decisions for us all - on both sides of the aisle. But, having a different opinion from you about when a fetus is a baby worth protecting - does not make them all "shitty men".

I don’t think you understood my post. Over the last 40 years have you been hearing intimate abortion stories in the public square as much as you’ve been hearing political “pro-life” discourse? Probably not.

Shitty men are playing a political game to get people who genuinely care like you to believe you have a moral high ground that only Republicans can defend.

You’ve been fooled if you think men who aren’t advocating for better affordable prenatal health care to actually care about when a fetus is a baby worth protecting.
 
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Yeah, but a lot of evictions can go on for months, especially if the judge is sympathetic to the tenant. And we just came through a period where it was basically impossible to evict a tenant for 18 months due to Covid, regardless of what they were doing.
 
I have heard this said before but I would like to see the statute that says that - have you seen one?
I wouldn't put it past some people to claim that but making it illegal to have a procedure after a miscarriage is nonsensical - the baby is no longer alive - there is no life to protect.

Most/many miscarriages don’t fully clear on their own and if left untreated will result in necrotic tissue prone to infection just festering in the uterus. It can lead to sepsis and death of the landlord if not evicted, so, Doctors use abortion procedures to clear the tissue and make sure it does not cause problems. Those procedures are now illegal in 23 states regardless of the reason. It’s possible your daughter had a clean and complete miscarriage, but more than likely it involved some medical intervention that is now ilegal.

Also, women who were pregnant and then are no longer pregnant will definitely be investigated. No doubt.
 
Yeah, but a lot of evictions can go on for months, especially if the judge is sympathetic to the tenant. And we just came through a period where it was basically impossible to evict a tenant for 18 months due to Covid, regardless of what they were doing.

Are you suggesting the tenant has too many rights?
 
Yeah what birdman said, but more my emphasis was the aspect of pregnant then not pregnant which in say Texas I report your daughter who just had a devastating miscarriage, grieving, and I’m looking for a potential $10,000 pay off with no consequences if I’m wrong. Here comes some extra questions, maybe a police officer, etc…
 
Most/many miscarriages don’t fully clear on their own and if left untreated will result in necrotic tissue prone to infection just festering in the uterus. It can lead to sepsis and death of the landlord if not evicted, so, Doctors use abortion procedures to clear the tissue and make sure it does not cause problems. Those procedures are now illegal in 23 states regardless of the reason. It’s possible your daughter had a clean and complete miscarriage, but more than likely it involved some medical intervention that is now ilegal.

Also, women who were pregnant and then are no longer pregnant will definitely be investigated. No doubt.

Yes, I understand all that. But, any statute outlawing or limiting abortion procedures that doesn't make an exception for when the fetus being protected is no longer alive, is an objectively stupid statute - so I would really like to understand whether 23 states are REALLY that stupid.
 
Yes, I understand all that. But, any statute outlawing or limiting abortion procedures that doesn't make an exception for when the fetus being protected is no longer alive, is an objectively stupid statute - so I would really like to understand whether 23 states are REALLY that stupid.

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Yes, I understand all that. But, any statute outlawing or limiting abortion procedures that doesn't make an exception for when the fetus being protected is no longer alive, is an objectively stupid statute - so I would really like to understand whether 23 states are REALLY that stupid.

Yes, most of them are. In actuality, they criminalize the pregnant person and are silent for the most part on the health of the fetus.

One of the hypotheticals that has resonated with some anti-abortion individuals I know is the concept of a person who has a stroke and is on life support. Yes, we're going back to Terri Schiavo here. When does the state have the right to tell the family they cannot pull the plug?
 
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Yes, I understand all that. But, any statute outlawing or limiting abortion procedures that doesn't make an exception for when the fetus being protected is no longer alive, is an objectively stupid statute - so I would really like to understand whether 23 states are REALLY that stupid.

Yes, they are. And to be more specific, the Republican Party is that stupid, and it’s not so much stupidity as it vindictive shittyness. This is the GOP that you support. They criminalized your daughter’s medical care in 23 (or more) states.
 
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Exactly. Because again…

Shitty men are playing a political game to get people who genuinely care like you to believe you have a moral high ground that only Republicans can defend.

You’ve been fooled if you think men who aren’t advocating for better affordable prenatal health care actually care about when a fetus is a baby worth protecting.
 
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If the life of each fetus was the goal we would have universal healthcare, much higher living wages, more consistent public education etc. That's not the point. "Pro life" is a brand. Its not a goal.
 
Another interesting take on this. Republicans just introduced a pretext for criminalizing more young women which is the remaining key demographic that votes Democrats that isn't already disproportionately in prison.
 
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