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Who do you blame for the loss yesterday?

bobknightfan said:
It gets much worse, though, with your second wish...."occasional 8 or 9 win seasons every once in a while." Again, excluding the miracle anomaly of 2006-08, WF has never won 9 games in a season its other 59 years in the ACC...never....and it has only won 8 games twice (1979 & 1992).
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To be fair, we used to play 11 or 10 or 9 games depending how far back you go, so the real number 4 or fewer losses or a year where we make a bowl. 39, 40, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 50, 59, 70, 79, 87, 88, 92, 99, 02, 06, 07, 08, 11 all fit, so it's not really that crazy.

Also... "I'm not "arguing" against anything."

I'd just enjoy a rationalization rant on that comment in particular if you have time.
 
bobknightfan said:
I'm not "arguing" against anything. I'm simply stating facts. And the statement that you made which is embolden in red represents irrational exuberance. You & others who actually think this is a reasonable expectation are the ones who are blindly arguing against the facts.

I've said that the 2006-08 period represents a once-in-a-lifetime anomaly for WF football. Some here seem to think it should be the new norm. Well, let's look at the facts.

You say that you want to go to a bowl on a "regular basis". Well, as long as you are wanting it, why not wish for a bowl every year? Doesn't cost any more than wishing for it on a regular basis. The cold, hard fact, though is that if you throw out that anomaly, WF has been to 5 bowl games in the other 59 years of its time in the ACC.

It gets much worse, though, with your second wish...."occasional 8 or 9 win seasons every once in a while." Again, excluding the miracle anomaly of 2006-08, WF has never won 9 games in a season its other 59 years in the ACC...never....and it has only won 8 games twice (1979 & 1992).

All this talk about goals like this are totally unrealistic....and just set everyone up for perpetual frustration, which leads to things like the board trashing of Jim Grobe which we saw in the last few years.
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Serious question. If this is all futile and only idiots have any hope for things improving, why do you post on these threads? We get it. Wake sucks. Has always sucked and will never be any better. So, if that's the case, then why are you wasting your time given that we all clearly understand your perspective? Is it simply not enough to only post negativity on one thread? Does it need to be repeated on each thread? Do all idiots need to be taught a lesson? I simply don't get what you're trying to accomplish.

Wouldn't it be a far better use of your time to do other things than continually bitch about how bad and awful Wake Forest is in college athletics?
 
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bobknightfan said:
LOL.....and the last time a coach other than Jim Grobe had back-to-back winning seasons at WF was 27 years ago. Probably half the posters on this board weren't even born then.
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Jim grobe was the head coach during 13 of those 27 years major logic fail. It would impossible for another coach to have back to back winning seasons while grobe was the coach.
 
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It is also nice to look at other schools for a ridiculous comparison like this. For example the Gamecocks didn't win their first bowl game until this century.
 
In all seriousness, the caliber of player in the program dropped dramatically. I think the big mistake was recruiting all those Jacksonville kids, very few of whole turned into ACC caliber players.
 
Obviously the reason we lost are the negative vibes thrown around by BKF
 
I think Jim Grobe was the best coach Wake ever had through about 2008. Then he "retired" but was still head coach and was drawing over a million a year. That was theft. He neither coached nor recruited the last few years he was head coach and his assistants were not able to cover his ass.
 
BudatWake said:
I think Jim Grobe was the best coach Wake ever had through about 2008. Then he "retired" but was still head coach and was drawing over a million a year. That was theft. He neither coached nor recruited the last few years he was head coach and his assistants were not able to cover his ass.
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I think that's basically the case. I do think there's some truth to what Grobe has eluded to that he was promised certain things from the admin after 2006 season that never came to be and maybe that lead to him losing some desire. However, no matter the circumstances as long as Grobe was coach, Wake Forest deserved the best out of him he could give and we didn't get it the last 4 years or so. I hope and think that Clawson has gotten more of a commitment from the admin before he even came here.
 
bobknightfan said:
I'm not "arguing" against anything. I'm simply stating facts. And the statement that you made which is embolden in red represents irrational exuberance. You & others who actually think this is a reasonable expectation are the ones who are blindly arguing against the facts.

I've said that the 2006-08 period represents a once-in-a-lifetime anomaly for WF football. Some here seem to think it should be the new norm. I haven't seen anyone arguing that we should have years like 2006-2008 all the time. Can you point to someone who has said that? Well, let's look at the facts.

You say that you want to go to a bowl on a "regular basis". Well, as long as you are wanting it, why not wish for a bowl every year? Doesn't cost any more than wishing for it on a regular basis. The cold, hard fact, though is that if you throw out that anomaly, WF has been to 5 bowl games in the other 59 years of its time in the ACC. Can you really throw out this stat without acknowledging that there are many times more bowl slots available now than there were during the great majority of those 59 years? You don't even have to be a good football team now to get into a bowl...Heck, you can work the NCSU model and win 4 games against cupcake non-cons and 2-3 in conference and, voila, you're in a bowl...

It gets much worse, though, with your second wish...."occasional 8 or 9 win seasons every once in a while." Again, excluding the miracle anomaly of 2006-08, WF has never won 9 games in a season its other 59 years in the ACC...never....and it has only won 8 games twice (1979 & 1992). You are correct, but, we also play more games now than we did during most of those seasons. And, again, it is a little unfair to just throw out 2006-2008 - if anything, it proved that it can be done.
All this talk about goals like this are totally unrealistic....and just set everyone up for perpetual frustration, which leads to things like the board trashing of Jim Grobe which we saw in the last few years.
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Unfortunately, as great as Grobe was for Wake, he deserved some trashing for the job he did during the last few years of his tenure.
 
bkf always views things through the lense of when he was a younger person following sports and fails to understand that some things have changed.

Looking at 1956 through 1986 which is a period that covered 31 years and 8 coaches Wake had 5 winning seasons.

From 1987 to 2015 which is a period that has covered 29 years and 3 coaches Wake has had 9 winning seasons. And this is a period that largely corresponds with the ACC adding FSU, VT, GT and Miami, which are 4 of the most successful football schools in the conference.

Is it hard to win at Wake? Absolutely. Is it as hard as the 60s and 70s? No way. Don't believe me, just don't look at Wake having success, look at Vandy, NW, Duke, TCU, Baylor.
 
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Just my opinion, but I disagree with the he quit coaching in 2008 theory. The group that gets no credit is that 2011 team. Finishes 6-7 but 2nd in the ACC and if they kick a FG against Clemson probably wins the division two years before he steps down. Just didn't take care of a tough non-conference schedule. Looking back, that team had quite a few NFL guys on it as well which is opposite to the he quit recruiting theory. I am like anyone else in that I want Wake to be great year in and year out and shoot for that. However, a season that you play in a good bowl game against an SEC team and almost win your division, beat FSU and NC State at home, and have a great atmosphere where you almost beat Notre Dame is a great year for a Wake fan.

In the end, Grobe had back to back seasons where close games and conservative strategy that worked in the past didn't work and he stepped down. Always was first class in the public eye and represented Wake well. It was probably time to go and he went.
 
I blame myself for getting emotionally invested in this stuff and then being disappointed about 80% of the time.
 
The season that really disappointed me was the final year. That option idea was awful and a desperate grasping at straws.
 
ChrisL68 said:
The season that really disappointed me was the final year. That option idea was awful and a desperate grasping at straws.
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When we punted from the opponent's 35 yard line. I lost all interest from that point forward.
 
coredeac said:
When we punted from the opponent's 35 yard line. I lost all interest from that point forward.
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If you have a poor FG kicker with a really low probability there and are facing a 4th and 15 or 20 from the 35, does probability say go or punt?

Is the extra 15 to 30 yards in field position greater value than the probability of converting and going on to score?
 
JacksonvilleDeac said:
Just my opinion, but I disagree with the he quit coaching in 2008 theory. The group that gets no credit is that 2011 team. Finishes 6-7 but 2nd in the ACC and if they kick a FG against Clemson probably wins the division two years before he steps down. Just didn't take care of a tough non-conference schedule. Looking back, that team had quite a few NFL guys on it as well which is opposite to the he quit recruiting theory. I am like anyone else in that I want Wake to be great year in and year out and shoot for that. However, a season that you play in a good bowl game against an SEC team and almost win your division, beat FSU and NC State at home, and have a great atmosphere where you almost beat Notre Dame is a great year for a Wake fan.

In the end, Grobe had back to back seasons where close games and conservative strategy that worked in the past didn't work and he stepped down. Always was first class in the public eye and represented Wake well. It was probably time to go and he went.
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Also Givens left for the NFL a year early and Camp got hurt. Grobe was fired 2 years removed from taking Wake to a bowl game and still won 15 games in those 3 years. Not great but I'll never understand the vitriol for him or the never-ending posts ripping him up. At the very worst he was fired a year late - and you're talking about the coach that won an ACC championship here. So strange.
 
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