The Islamic Dilemma

TownieDeac said:

What is the dilemma?

Click to expand...

MysteryMen said:

Again, why do "we," as in America, need to solve this worldwide problem when it is not a direct threat to us? We don't need all the "extra security" or any of the other BS. Again, Islamic terrorists are killing what, less than 10 people here per year? We would be better off if we just accepted that, like we accept tons of other things that cause a handful of deaths, and got on with our lives

Click to expand...

I love how I have posted some version of this about 10 times on three different threads, and none of our resident conservatives have even tried to respond and explain why Islamic terrorism is a serious threat to the country as a whole

MysteryMen said:

Again, why do "we," as in America, need to solve this worldwide problem when it is not a direct threat to us? We don't need all the "extra security" or any of the other BS. Again, Islamic terrorists are killing what, less than 10 people here per year? We would be better off if we just accepted that, like we accept tons of other things that cause a handful of deaths, and got on with our lives

Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, what number of American deaths on American soil moves the needle for you? Did 9/11 move the needle? Would what happened in Paris move the needle if it occurred here? Is it just the raw numbers, or does the means of death matter?

Junebug said:

Out of curiosity, what number of American deaths on American soil moves the needle for you? Did 9/11 move the needle? Would what happened in Paris move the needle if it occurred here? Is it just the raw numbers, or does the means of death matter?

Click to expand...

Same question, mass murders with legally purchased firearms by non-Muslims.

Junebug said:

Out of curiosity, what number of American deaths on American soil moves the needle for you? Did 9/11 move the needle? Would what happened in Paris move the needle if it occurred here? Is it just the raw numbers, or does the means of death matter?

Click to expand...

Not to speak for MM, but for me, it's not about X number of deaths moves the needle. It's about priorities. There are plenty of other things that lead to more American deaths that it makes more sense to devote resources toward than Islamic terrorism.

Can you explain why Islamic terrorism is a higher priority for you than all of the other things that lead to death on American soil? What is so special about it?

Junebug said:

Out of curiosity, what number of American deaths on American soil moves the needle for you? Did 9/11 move the needle? Would what happened in Paris move the needle if it occurred here? Is it just the raw numbers, or does the means of death matter?

Click to expand...

9/11 moves the needle for me, but not as far as it actually got moved after 9/11 happened. To me, we clearly overreacted in myriad ways to 9/11 and that has caused a lot of the problems the world is currently experiencing today, to say nothing of some of the despicable things that our government did to people, including U.S. citizens. I would say that I have no problem with us expending resources to prevent another 9/11 - attacks of that scale are much more preventable through intelligence gathering than stopping lone wolf radicalized individuals.

As to you second question, to me, it's not only the raw numbers, but it is largely the raw numbers and I like focusing on them because I think that's the only way to keep things in context. I think it's largely irrational to prioritize stopping the killing of 10 people through terrorism over stopping the killing of hundreds or thousands of people in cartel-related violence, or drunk driving, or any number of things that kill orders of magnitude more Americans every year (I am intentionally not bringing in gun violence here to try to keep on topic, but I think that would arguably be the area where allocating the federal funds we spend on anti-terrorism to regulation and enforcement would have the greatest life-saving effect).

The only justification is that deaths from terrorism cause more fear in the population than deaths from gangs, cartels, drunks, etc. to which I would respond that the fear is a result of general irrationality, and that we should not form our domestic policy around catering to irrational fears.

But I'm curious to hear your thoughts

PhDeac said:

Can you explain why Islamic terrorism is a higher priority for you than all of the other things that lead to death on American soil?

Click to expand...

Have you told your wife about your fetish for collies?

What's that? I shouldn't make assumptions? Well neither should you.

So why do you disagree with MM, Junebug? Clearly your priorities are different.

MysteryMen said:

9/11 moves the needle for me, but not as far is it actually got moved after 9/11 happened. To me, we clearly overreacted in myriad ways to 9/11 and that has caused a lot of the problems the world is currently experiencing today, to say nothing of some of the despicable things that our government did to people, including U.S. citizens. I would say that I have no problem with us expending resources to prevent another 9/11 - attacks of that scale are much more preventable through intelligence gathering than stopping lone wolf radicalized individuals.

As to you second question, to me, it's not only the raw numbers, but it is largely the raw numbers and I like focusing on them because I think that's the only way to keep things in context. I think it's largely irrational to prioritize stopping the killing of 10 people through terrorism over stopping the killing of hundreds or thousands of people in cartel-related violence, or drunk driving, or any number of things that kill orders of magnitude more Americans every year (I am intentionally not bringing in gun violence here to try to keep on topic, but I think that would arguably be the area where allocating the federal funds we spend on anti-terrorism to regulation and enforcement would have the greatest life-saving effect).

The only justification is that deaths from terrorism cause more fear in the population than deaths from gangs, cartels, drunks, etc. to which I would respond that the fear is a result of general irrationality that that we should not form our domestic policy around catering to irrational fears.

But I'm curious to hear your thoughts

Click to expand...

I generally agree. I think the 24/7 news cycle intensifies the impact of a mass shooting like in California, and, coupled with the rise of ISIS, their desire for global domination, and their viciousness, it has created unreasonable paranoia. It is one thing to say that ISIS is a destabilizing force that demands a response in the ME because of our interests there and Europe, but quite another to be wringing our hands over Islamic domestic terrorism at this point.

I would add that a domestic Paris would probably move the needle for me, even though the number of deaths was small in the scheme of things. To your point, large scale, concerted attacks are obviously much more of a concern from an overarching perspective than one-off dipshits who just want to go down in flames.

You can't really blame the 24/7 news cycle for hyping one news story over other news stories. They're always looking for content. The question is why Islamic domestic terrorist moves the news needle more than the myriad of deaths caused by Americans unaffiliated with or not motivated by a terrorist organization.

Junebug said:

I would add that a domestic Paris would probably move the needle for me, even though the number of deaths was small in the scheme of things. To your point, large scale, concerted attacks are obviously much more of a concern from an overarching perspective than one-off dipshits who just want to go down in flames.

Click to expand...

Obviously? Can you explain why? Sheer numbers?

PhDeac said:

Obviously? Can you explain why? Sheer numbers?

Click to expand...

Sheer numbers, yes, but the concerted activity required for something like Paris to go down does not happen in a vacuum. If there are subcultures where that type of planning and secrecy can occur, then it has the beginnings of looking like a movement that is harder to control.

Hard to control? Possibly. Harder to control than lone dipshits? Doubtful.

I'll put this here since we don't have a specific thread for hate crimes against Muslims.
http://usuncut.com/news/there-have-been-23-hate-crimes-against-muslims-in-the-past-6-days/

23 hate crimes this week against Muslims.

Tampa, Florida: Two Muslim women wearing head scarves were violently attacked on different occasions by angry Islamophobes in Tampa. One woman reported being shot at as she was leaving a mosque in Tampa. Another woman reported that a man cut her off in traffic, threw rocks at her vehicle from the window of his car, and at one point, exited his vehicle and screamed at her.

North Palm Beach, Florida: 27-year-old Joshua Killets was arrested for smashing windows and overturning furniture at the Islamic Center of Palm Beach. Killets had previously posted Islamophobic content on his Facebook profile. Killets even bragged about committing the act to the person who reported the incident to local police.

Philadelphia, Pennsylvania: A red pickup truck threw a pig’s head at the front door of the Al-Aqsa Islamic Society early Monday morning before driving off. Islam is well-known for forbidding Muslims from eating pork or coming into contact with pigs. No arrests have been made.


Twin Falls, Idaho: The Islamic Center of Twin Falls was vandalized on Monday, with the words “HUNT CAMP?” spray painted on its windows. The man who reported the vandalism to police speculated that the vandal’s words are likely in reference to an internment camp in Idaho for Japanese-Americans during World War II, commonly referred to as the Hunt Camp. In this case, it seems the vandal is calling for American Muslims to be detained in similar camps.


State College, Pennsylvania: 19-year-old Nicholas Tavella, a Penn State student, grabbed an Indian student by the throat while he was crossing an intersection, telling him, “Don’t make me put a bullet in your chest.” Tavella admitted to police he racially profiled the student, saying he appeared to be Middle Eastern. Tavella is charged with felony ethnic intimidation, and faces misdemeanor charges of terroristic threatening, simple assault, disorderly conduct and stalking and harassment.


Queens, New York: Sarker Haque, owner of the Fatima Food Mart in Queens, was assaulted by 55-year-old Piro Kolvani, who said “I kill Muslims” during the attack. Kolvani has been charged with a hate crime.

PhDeac said:

You can't really blame the 24/7 news cycle for hyping one news story over other news stories. They're always looking for content. The question is why Islamic domestic terrorist moves the news needle more than the myriad of deaths caused by Americans unaffiliated with or not motivated by a terrorist organization.

Click to expand...

I think there are lots of reasons, including the memory of 9/11, the fact that we are at war (albeit undeclared) with ISIS and war results in our enemies doing horrific things to us, the fact that people fear what they don't understand and Muslims are both culturally and religiously different from most of us, the fact that small-scale terrorism is not that difficult to accomplish, the fact that many domestic terrorists have clearly been cuckoo for cocoa puffs (Dear being the latest example) while Muslim terrorists appear to be sane (although zealous), the fact that paranoia is contagious, etc.

Good post. I agree with that.

PhDeac said:

I'll put this here since we don't have a specific thread for hate crimes against Muslims.
http://usuncut.com/news/there-have-been-23-hate-crimes-against-muslims-in-the-past-6-days/

23 hate crimes this week against Muslims.

Tampa, Florida: Two Muslim women wearing head scarves were violently attacked on different occasions by angry Islamophobes in Tampa. One woman reported being shot at as she was leaving a mosque in Tampa. Another woman reported that a man cut her off in traffic, threw rocks at her vehicle from the window of his car, and at one point, exited his vehicle and screamed at her.

North Palm Beach, Florida: 27-year-old Joshua Killets was arrested for smashing windows and overturning furniture at the Islamic Center of Palm Beach. Killets had previously posted Islamophobic content on his Facebook profile. Killets even bragged about committing the act to the person who reported the incident to local police.

Philadelphia, Pennsylvania: A red pickup truck threw a pig’s head at the front door of the Al-Aqsa Islamic Society early Monday morning before driving off. Islam is well-known for forbidding Muslims from eating pork or coming into contact with pigs. No arrests have been made.


Twin Falls, Idaho: The Islamic Center of Twin Falls was vandalized on Monday, with the words “HUNT CAMP?” spray painted on its windows. The man who reported the vandalism to police speculated that the vandal’s words are likely in reference to an internment camp in Idaho for Japanese-Americans during World War II, commonly referred to as the Hunt Camp. In this case, it seems the vandal is calling for American Muslims to be detained in similar camps.


State College, Pennsylvania: 19-year-old Nicholas Tavella, a Penn State student, grabbed an Indian student by the throat while he was crossing an intersection, telling him, “Don’t make me put a bullet in your chest.” Tavella admitted to police he racially profiled the student, saying he appeared to be Middle Eastern. Tavella is charged with felony ethnic intimidation, and faces misdemeanor charges of terroristic threatening, simple assault, disorderly conduct and stalking and harassment.


Queens, New York: Sarker Haque, owner of the Fatima Food Mart in Queens, was assaulted by 55-year-old Piro Kolvani, who said “I kill Muslims” during the attack. Kolvani has been charged with a hate crime.

Click to expand...

Wow. Thanks for posting.

Turns out we actually do have a Muslim problem in this country. It's us.

Maybe we should tell them to stop listening to the ramblings of an egotistical asshole who fucks 8 year olds

Just an observation

Love the new rational. ISIS - no big deal, getting countries to pledge to keep the temperature rise of the world under 3.6 degrees - you da man.

If you're living in America ISIS really isn't that big of a deal. If I lived in the Middle East i think i would feel quite different though.

MysteryMen said:

Again, why do "we," as in America, need to solve this worldwide problem when it is not a direct threat to us? We don't need all the "extra security" or any of the other BS. Again, Islamic terrorists are killing what, less than 10 people here per year? We would be better off if we just accepted that, like we accept tons of other things that cause a handful of deaths, and got on with our lives

Click to expand...

Even looking at this from a completely parochial point of view, there is much more than just number of deaths to look at. How much money and freedom has been spent to keep this low death number so low. ISIS would like to kill every single American. Sometimes, what makes your enemy dangerous is what length are they willing to go to cause your death. Most people will stop somewhere shy of actually dying themselves or at a minimum not having there children die. When an ideology exalts the death of their own children if they can take out the enemy by strapping bombs on themselves, they are dangerous.

It is not only, how many people have died to date, but how many might die if we ignore the problem. We pretty much ignored Al queda and we got 911. ISIS has territory and is bringing in millions of dollars in oil money. How far fetched would it be for N. Korea to sell ISIS a nuclear weapon? N Koprea hates the US and need money badly. ISIS would just need to get it here and detonate it. I would imagine a shipping container would be a reasonable option. Detonate in San Fran harbor. How about germ warfare. If they can get there hands on something or entice an agreeable scientist, what would keep them from releasing something? Most countries would be concerned about their own people dying, but if you are part of a death cult... it's all good.

If that doesn't move you at all, at least consider the amount of people dying around the world because they do not believe in the right form of the Muslim religion.

I do not think that means that we should go to war alone or maybe even at all, but we should have some kind of strategy or plan to defeat this. Ignore the problem and it will grow.