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SPOILERS: Star Wars: The Last Jedi Discussion Thread SPOILERS

PhDeac said:
I originally thought people were mad that their questions went unanswered. Now I think people are mad their questions were irrelevant.

For decades, Star Wars fans were so starved of content that we tried to explain minutia that ultimately didn't matter much. I think we have to untrain ourselves and get used to having so much content that we don't need to overthink things.
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"You must unlearn what you have learned."
 
Kyle's power, or lack there of, does not have anything to do with being manipulated by snoke. He was. Snoke said he did. He connected them together thinking kylo's weakness (from snoke"s pov) would ultimately bring Rey. It worked. He used them and they were not experienced enough to realize it. they were powerful enough to overcome his experience and power (with a trick certainly). It was kylo's big moment. He turned the tables on his master and made a leap forward in his force powers and mental capabilities.

Nitpick - why do you fight regular, but tough fighters, straight up with weapons when you could use the force to blow them away from you and stab them while they are disoriented and hurt? Loved the scene though.
 
PhDeac said:
Kylo was severely injured from the blast from Chewy's bowcaster and other injuries I noticed in my recent viewing. He was severely weakened. Rey was strong in the force, raw obviously. But she was a capable fighter. And someone doesn't have to be an experienced force wielder to be competent with a lightsaber. All that was established leading up to the TFA climax.

Kylo's plan was clearly to use Rey as a distraction to kill Snoke. His other plan was to recruit Rey to be his #2. Given that, it seems clear that he was not manipulated into connecting with Rey.

Even accepting your argument, what does it matter given that Kylo and Rey are far more powerful than anybody else we know is around in this universe?

Random thought. Anybody else think that the allies who didn't answer Leia's distress signal could be the subject of the Rion Johnson trilogy?
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It was definitely not clear that Ren's plan was to kill Snoke. I said that it doesn't matter because those two are the most powerful characters left in my initial post.
 
PhDeac said:
I'm not sure why you think that. There's no evidence of the first and the second is more of an experience vs. potential thing.

The lack of a love story worked for me so far. They're just trying to stay alive. I'm still scarred from Anakin and Padme. Now they've set up a potential Rose-Finn-Rey triangle. Who knows what could spark between Rey and Poe?
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Like has already said that he’s never seen anything like Ben and Rey’s raw power before and that it scares him.
 
Shooshmoo said:
It was definitely not clear that Ren's plan was to kill Snoke. I said that it doesn't matter because those two are the most powerful characters left in my initial post.
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He did it and there was no indication it was simply an opportunistic thing. Perhaps we split the difference and say he planned to do it if given the opportunity.
 
On Rey- what was the significance of when she is exploring the force and sees the dark hole for the first time... Luke says something like “you went straight to the dark, you didn’t even try to fight it”.
 
PhDeac said:
I originally thought people were mad that their questions went unanswered. Now I think people are mad their questions were irrelevant.

For decades, Star Wars fans were so starved of content that we tried to explain minutia that ultimately didn't matter much. I think we have to untrain ourselves and get used to having so much content that we don't need to overthink things.
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I don’t think the origin of Snoke should be irrelevant.

There’s such a huge and detailed history of Star Wars, even preceding the existing movies. There was a whole series of films that explained the rise of Vader and Palpatine.

How did Palpatine become a senator? Did he run for city council and work his way up? Who cares.

How did he go from a Senator to ruler of the galaxy ? That’s a valuable story.

I was fine not knowing about Maul or Dooku. They trained in secret. Ok, cool.

Snoke is way more important. Heck, they even cloaked him in mystery in VII.
 
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PhDeac said:
He did it and there was no indication it was simply an opportunistic thing. Perhaps we split the difference and say he planned to do it if given the opportunity.
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Not that it’s officially canon anymore, but every Star Wars book about the Sith has the apprentice finally taking down his master through some form of subterfuge or finding an opportunity to kil when the master isn’t focused on it. Usually it’s an opportunistic thing where the apprentice was doing his or her duty until the opportunity presented itself and they acted. I got the sense in this case they Kylo had it in his mind that he would act at the first opportunity and Luke’s lightsaber being next to snoke gave him that opportunity. I do not thing it was his specific plan to kill snoke then and there.
 
bym051d said:
I don’t think the origin of Snoke should be irrelevant.

There’s such a huge and detailed history of Star Wars, even preceding the existing movies. There was a whole series of films that explained the rise of Vader and Palpatine.

How did Palpatine become a senator? Did he run for city council and work his way up? Who cares.

How did he go from a Senator to ruler of the galaxy ? That’s a valuable story.

I was fine not knowing about Maul or Dooku. They trained in secret. Ok, cool.

Snoke is way more important. Hecke, they even cloaked him in mystery in VII.
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It’s odd- the first teaser for TFA was voiced over by snoke. the first TLJ trailer was opened with Snoke. Obviously serkis is a major lead actor. All signs pointed to him being a significant character that we should be thinking about. They put him front and center in the marketing then discarded him. I’m fine with it for the story but I understand why people were thrown off by his being discarded with so little fanfare.
 
DEACisGO said:
On Rey- what was the significance of when she is exploring the force and sees the dark hole for the first time... Luke says something like “you went straight to the dark, you didn’t even try to fight it”.
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I simply think its the festering guilt he's harbored for years speaking. When he finally decides to give Rey the time of day, he for damn sure wanted to make sure she didn't go to the Dark Side.

This is before Yoda torched the Jedi texts and showed him how things are different now. Speaking of the texts, didn't it look like there was one in that drawer Finn opened at the end when retrieving a blanket for Rose?
 
HailToTheDeacons said:
I simply think its the festering guilt he's harbored for years speaking. When he finally decides to give Rey the time of day, he for damn sure wanted to make sure she didn't go to the Dark Side.

This is before Yoda torched the Jedi texts and showed him how things are different now. Speaking of the texts, didn't it look like there was one in that drawer Finn opened at the end when retrieving a blanket for Rose?
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Yes. She took the books with her. Yoda even alluded to the fact that she already has all the knowledge she needs from that place, implying he knew that she took them.
 
Geez. People want something different but they don't want to be surprised.
 
This is great, Ph will defend holds true even for something that is 100 percent opinion based.
 
Meh. People are quibbling about the lack of facts that are objectively there or were deemed irrelevant.
 
Seems most people don’t like the lack of facts that aren’t there that are relevant. Like the driver and manipulator of the entire one side of the universe so go ahead and explain who Snoke was. Go ahead explain Snoke’s back story . Where was he during all the previous action? Where did he come from? Who trained him in the force? Is he Sith? Who was his master then? Why is his face all fucked up like he was in some serious battles?
 
Just because you want to know something doesn't make it relevant.
 
You do realize that defining what’s relevant and irrelevant is also your opinion and not some solid factual ground you are standing on. So you are making an argument that in your opinion something is irrelevant and therefore in your opinion doesn’t take away from the story and your enjoyment.
 
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The lightspeed collision trick was pretty cool, I've always wondered how that sort of thing doesn't happen accidentally more often. And Kylo stabbing that dude in the face with the passed lightsaber was nuts.
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Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could bounce through a star or fly too close to a supernova. That'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?
 
I wonder how much extra traffic the hot chicks thread is getting with it also having the NSFW marker and both being near the top all weekend.
 
I liked it. It just needed a better editor to cut 30 minutes off. The internet nerd quibbling over the meaningless so-called plot holes is annoying.
 
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