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A Militia Has Taken Over A Federal Building In Oregon

This is a wild-ass guess, but the fact that authorities haven't simply gassed the place and raided it with a SWAT team may indicate that they're worried about explosives and other booby traps.
 
This is a wild-ass guess, but the fact that authorities haven't simply gassed the place and raided it with a SWAT team may indicate that they're worried about explosives and other booby traps.

I'd have to think a significant reason that the feds haven't taken forceful measures at the house is a concerted decision not to appear like a gestapo police force. Excessive force by the federal agents would only add fuel to the fire of the "big federal government" theory and cause additional people to join the cause. Also, why in the world would an Obama administration create a "big government" plot line for Republicans to use as fodder?
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/29/us/oregon-standoff.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

FBI released video of the killing of Lavoy Finicum. Looks like he came out of the crashed vehicle with his hands up then reached for something before he was killed.

it's difficult without sound. you can't hear what anyone is saying or when the shots are fired. in some ways it is similar to the situation we argued about for 10 pages on the fascism thread, where the cops are responding to a report of armed gangbangers, then shoot the kid in front of the c-store as he is trying to lift his shirt to show he's unarmed. In both cases the officers have the mindset that they are dealing with an armed and dangerous person (obviously, in the Finicum situation their mindset is objectively reasonable since the dudes are known to be armed to the teeth, Finicum himself had declared several times he'd die before going to jail, and was actively fleeing from the police in an SUV). In both cases there is probably a demand to surrender (admittedly, we don't know this for sure in the Finicum case). In both cases, the suspect is making movements that can be interpreted as surrendering but also as reaching for a concealed weapon.

If the shooting of the kid at the c-store was justified (I argued it was not, but it was a relatively close call) then the shooting of Finicum was definitely justified. Of course my opinion on that could change if audio comes out showing the agents started shooting before Finicum reached for his gun.
 
it's difficult without sound. you can't hear what anyone is saying or when the shots are fired. in some ways it is similar to the situation we argued about for 10 pages on the fascism thread, where the cops are responding to a report of armed gangbangers, then shoot the kid in front of the c-store as he is trying to lift his shirt to show he's unarmed. In both cases the officers have the mindset that they are dealing with an armed and dangerous person (obviously, in the Finicum situation their mindset is objectively reasonable since the dudes are known to be armed to the teeth, Finicum himself had declared several times he'd die before going to jail, and was actively fleeing from the police in an SUV). In both cases there is probably a demand to surrender (admittedly, we don't know this for sure in the Finicum case). In both cases, the suspect is making movements that can be interpreted as surrendering but also as reaching for a concealed weapon.

If the shooting of the kid at the c-store was justified (I argued it was not, but it was a relatively close call) then the shooting of Finicum was definitely justified. Of course my opinion on that could change if audio comes out showing the agents started shooting before Finicum reached for his gun.

These guys had said over and over again in the media that they were willing to kill and be killed to defend their rights. They had also bragged about the quantity and quality of their guns. While there may be similarities (eg, a cop, a civilian and weapons) the kid at the c-store probably hadn't openly threatened the authorities for weeks prior to his death. The FBI and police had waited weeks for these Billy the Kid wanna bes to vacate the refuge and end this peacefully. These guys took the risk of being belligerent and openly threatening the lives of anybody that tried to stop them. Of course the police were on edge and had their fingers on the trigger.
 
These guys had said over and over again in the media that they were willing to kill and be killed to defend their rights. They had also bragged about the quantity and quality of their guns. While there may be similarities (eg, a cop, a civilian and weapons) the kid at the c-store probably hadn't openly threatened the authorities for weeks prior to his death. The FBI and police had waited weeks for these Billy the Kid wanna bes to vacate the refuge and end this peacefully. These guys took the risk of being belligerent and openly threatening the lives of anybody that tried to stop them. Of course the police were on edge and had their fingers on the trigger.

Absolutely. My main objection to the C-store shooting was that the information the cops had coming into the situation was very flimsy and did not warrant drawing down on a group of dudes without taking any action to identify them, de-escalate or investigate the situation. This is the opposite situation; the suspects are well known, known to be heavily armed, the agents tried to take them into custody peacefully but they actively fled (and almost ran over an agent), plus all the stuff you said.
 
Four holdouts want charge dropped for one to end occupation

Four left, they want to leave but not be arrested.

He and his wife danced slowly to "Tangled Up in You," a song by Staind blasting out of the door of a nearby pickup, with an American flag on a pole laid up against the side.

Both Andersons are dressed in camo gear, Sean Anderson with a small copy of the Constitution tucked in his chest pocket. Cases of water and beer rested near their feet, surrounded in sagebrush. Another American flag was wedged among rocks nearby.

After the dance, Sean Anderson turned to the camera, sniffling. "We want to live," he said.

"We're free Americans," he said. "This isn't Nazi Germany. We don't need checkpoints. We don't need felony charges."

Anderson said he and the others were simply camping in the desert, hurting no one.
 
Other than maybe the man's family, who in their right mind would have a problem with this shooting?

He was known to be armed; he said he would die before going to jail; he ran from the cops; he almost ran into an FBI agent at the road block and the he jumped our of the car and reached for his jacket pocket twice (which ultimately had a loaded 9mm).

He is just the most recent in a long line of Darwin Award winner.
 
Other than maybe the man's family, who in their right mind would have a problem with this shooting?

He was known to be armed; he said he would die before going to jail; he ran from the cops; he almost ran into an FBI agent at the road block and the he jumped our of the car and reached for his jacket pocket twice (which ultimately had a loaded 9mm).

He is just the most recent in a long line of Darwin Award winner.

Except he is 55 or so and probably already procreated.
 
One thing I noticed about the shooting, from a purely tactical perspective, is the positioning of the officers. According to accounts, the officer who shot was the guy coming out of the trees at the top of the picture. Look at the position of the rest of the officers - a bunch of them were in the line of fire behind Finicum from the shooter's position. Significant risk of friendly fire there. Maybe could have approached that differently.
 
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