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Saudi World Golf Tour 2022/2023 Thread

cville deac said:
Ours certainly is, not so sure about the rest of the world. We have double the top-25 players, and I'd only consider 4 of their guys as really good to great players - Matsuyama, Day, Scott and Louis.

Better question is who should get the captain's picks. I'd take Hoffman and Harman, though I'm sure Strick will take Phil. I've thought for a while that US PC captains should err on the side of taking younger players with their captain's picks. Reason being is the PC doesn't really matter at a deep level, and we've been completely dominant in the event. So why not use it to include younger stars to get them practice for the Ryder Cup, which matters a whole lot more. This is why, even though Bill Haas is probably my favorite golfer, I thought Jay should have taken Koepka over him the last time. That plus our older guys usually tend to suck in the Ryder Cup - see Tiger, Phil, Stricker and Furyk. And for what was probably the 1st time, Europe had the problem of too many old guys last year, and it clearly cost them.
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I like the Hoffman pick. I'd strongly consider Ryan Moore as well.
 
Phil is 18-20-7 in the Ryder Cup, would hardly call that sucking.

Also, the "President's Cup should be for young players to get ready for Ryder Cup" trope is SO tired. It is never going to happen because a) the tourneys are run by two separate groups (Pres Cup by the Tour, RC by PGA of America) and, b) the captains are always going to want to win, not do what's best for the captain of the Ryder Cup the following year.
 
Has to be Phil and Hoffman. Don't see Stricker going outside the box here.
Phil is 23-16-12 in P Cup. 20-11-9 in team matches, 3-5-3 in singles.
 
GPDeac said:
Phil is 18-20-7 in the Ryder Cup, would hardly call that sucking.

Also, the "President's Cup should be for young players to get ready for Ryder Cup" trope is SO tired. It is never going to happen because a) the tourneys are run by two separate groups (Pres Cup by the Tour, RC by PGA of America) and, b) the captains are always going to want to win, not do what's best for the captain of the Ryder Cup the following year.
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I get that that's what PC captains do. But given how badly we were getting thumped by the Euros for so long, I had been thinking that a bigger picture view of the PC by going with more younger players and getting them experience for the RC would have been a good idea.

Phil played well in the RC last year, but hasn't always or often. He and Tiger were the 2 most dominant golfers from the mid-late 90s through to a few years ago. But they both have losing RC records, as do Furyk and Stricker, the next 2 best Americans during that stretch. As Euros like Faldo, Monty, Olazabal and Langer faded away as Tiger and Phil were hitting their prime, the Euro teams of the 2000s lacked the star power that the 90s Euro teams had - Garcia, Westwood and Poulter were consistently the best the Euros had to offer during those years. So I think it's more than fair to say that Tiger, Phil, Furyk and Stricker have been underachievers at the RC vis-a-vis their talent level and golf achievements outside the RC.
 
That's a more fair statement than they "tend to suck."

And, I don't think the PC will ever have a "bigger picture view" of the RC, because that is not what the Tour wants them to do --- they want what is best for the President's Cup, Ryder Cup be damned.
 
GPDeac said:
That's a more fair statement than they "tend to suck."

And, I don't think the PC will ever have a "bigger picture view" of the RC, because that is not what the Tour wants them to do --- they want what is best for the President's Cup, Ryder Cup be damned.
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As I said, I get why PC captains pick as they have. It's just been my wish that they'd go with more young guns.

And yeah, Tiger and Phil haven't sucked anywhere as badly as Furyk at the RC. Hell, I'd nominate Furyk for the worst RC-er of all time. That said, Tiger and Phil were easily the 2 best of their generation, and the only golfer from their generation who I'd throw in the mix with their names is Vijay. Maybe Ernie. And neither Vijay nor Ernie are Euros. Tiger and Phil have like 120 combined wins and 19 majors. And I get that the Euros, while not having anyone who could match Tiger's or Phil's talent, had better leadership and comradery (though 1 could also argue that Tiger and Phil have contributed to our relative lack of comradery, especially with each other). But given that Tiger and Phil have usually been pitted against Euro golfers who haven't been in their league in terms of talent, they both boast overall losing records in the RC. So yeah, suck may be too strong a word, but they both have seriously underachieved in that 1 same aspect of their otherwise stellar careers.
 
I just looked at all-time Ryder Cup records

Furyk is 10-20-4 all-time; however he is 4-4-1 in singles (and 6-16-3 in foursomes + fourballs)

Jack Nicklaus is 17-8-3 all-time but 4-4-2 in singles (and 13-4-1 with a partner)

Phil is 5-5-1 in singles and 13-15-6 with a partner

Tiger is 4-1-2 in singles and 9-16-1 with a partner

so Furyk takes the hit because of his record while playing with a partner; maybe he deserves this, maybe not
 
thatguy2016 said:
I just looked at all-time Ryder Cup records

Furyk is 10-20-4 all-time; however he is 4-4-1 in singles (and 6-16-3 in foursomes + fourballs)

Jack Nicklaus is 17-8-3 all-time but 4-4-2 in singles (and 13-4-1 with a partner)

Phil is 5-5-1 in singles and 13-15-6 with a partner

Tiger is 4-1-2 in singles and 9-16-1 with a partner

so Furyk takes the hit because of his record while playing with a partner; maybe he deserves this, maybe not
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You just can't compare the RC in Jack's era to the 80s-2010s. Back then, the US just played against the UK. So outside of Jacklin and Thomsen, Arnie and Jack were playing against nobodies. So Jack's 17-8-3 is not really impressive in that light. I think they added the rest of Europe in the mid 80s, and it pretty immediately became competitive and testy. Thank you Seve, Sir Nick and Monty. God, I despise those guys.

Furyk deserves all the RC criticism he can get. Sure, you can play well and lose to a buzzsaw. But he has regularly sucked ass just about every time. For a guy with his resume to be that awful, there is no good explanation.
 
cville deac said:
You just can't compare the RC in Jack's era to the 80s-2010s. Back then, the US just played against the UK. So outside of Jacklin and Thomsen, Arnie and Jack were playing against nobodies. So Jack's 17-8-3 is not really impressive in that light. I think they added the rest of Europe in the mid 80s, and it pretty immediately became competitive and testy. Thank you Seve, Sir Nick and Monty. God, I despise those guys.

Furyk deserves all the RC criticism he can get. Sure, you can play well and lose to a buzzsaw. But he has regularly sucked ass just about every time. For a guy with his resume to be that awful, there is no good explanation.
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I agree re: Jack, but that makes Furyk's 4-4-1 singles record better than Jack's 4-4-2 singles record
 
I am glad Phil was picked as a Captain's choice! He adds a lot to the team in more ways than just his playing ability. Hoffman is also a great pick.
 
TheReff said:
I am glad Phil was picked as a Captain's choice! He adds a lot to the team in more ways than just his playing ability. Hoffman is also a great pick.
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Hal Sutton and Tom Watson might beg to differ. Not that it matters either way.
 
TheReff said:
I am glad Phil was picked as a Captain's choice! He adds a lot to the team in more ways than just his playing ability. Hoffman is also a great pick.
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cville deac said:
Hal Sutton and Tom Watson might beg to differ. Not that it matters either way.
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Phil probably adds more than Brian Harman (#12 of the standings). Plus, we might get to see they guys rub Phil's belly for good luck

 
deacondamo said:
Phil probably adds more than Brian Harman (#12 of the standings). Plus, we might get to see they guys rub Phil's belly for good luck


I don't disagree at all and don't really care whether it's Phil or Harman. Harman has had a nice year and can putt, but it's not like he's a rising star like a Berger now or a JT a year or 2 ago. And aside from lobbing bombs at Watson in the post-RC presser (correct in his analysis but wrong time and place) and at Sutton pre-RC, he's a lot more popular now with his fellow tour members than he was 15-20 years ago. And our team on paper is just way better than the world's, so I don't care about the captain's picks here like I do at a RC (when I'm rooting for our captain to pick the hottest players to give us the best chance - see Simpson, Webb).
 
Here's another good one from, Phil. LOL, he's got so much #toursauce

 
Also, I think they basically changed how the U.S. does the Ryder Cup after Phil's tirade against Watson. The U.S. record against Europe was awful and the people in charge refused to change anything. He basically forced change and the system is much more collaborative approach similar to the Euros. The players meet throughout the year to discuss the team and build camraderie. I understand that Phil has detractors or whatever, but he said what needed to be said regarding U.S. Ryder Cup Captains and team selection, etc. Proof is in the pudding at 2016 Hazeltine.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
Sutton was an awful captain.
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Yes he was. So was Strange, as much as I hate to say it. Love and Zinger were on the right track, but the problem wasn't necessarily Strange, Watson or Sutton. It was the PGA bosses who ignored our PGA players and just picked captains they happened to like without any sense of continuity or plan. That's who should have been savaged publicly, if they didn't respond to our golfers after the 2014 beatdown. But not a legend and nice guy like Watson right after the event in the presser. I also think the reporter who repeated the question may have been baiting Phil - he's not terribly difficult to bait.
 
Got the chance to play a hole with Watson and then have dinner after with a fairly small group. He spoke and took questions. He's an amazing person and a hell of a player. But he's been through some shit and definitely has a dark side. He was a terrible captain and most players knew he would be. There were more run-ins behind the scenes that were not discussed publically. He has a "my way or go fuck yourself" attitude in any competition that is great for the individual version of golf but at perfect odds with anything team-oriented.
 
Playoffs are a real snoozer, at least until East Lake. Ready for the Presidents' Cup to begin.
 
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