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Saudi World Golf Tour 2022/2023 Thread

You may be old enough that your frame of reference is an era in which tax rates on the absolute highest earners and lack of wealth hoarding vehicles meant there wasn’t a huge difference between making $15M and making $50M. So people could prioritize legacy etc over just making more money.

Nowadays there’s always more money to be made and plenty of ways to keep it. So people who are wealthy beyond your dreams aspire to have as much as they people who can pay them to be wealthy beyond their dreams.

I don’t know the difference between making $20M in a year and making $100M for effectively doing the same thing. But these golfers can.
 
Well I would guess that Bryson probably was stroked a $50M check or thereabouts. Up front money.

I still think these guys know LIV is going to fold and actually hope it does fold. And they got their big check and will somehow be able to play the PGA tour again a year or so after LIV folds. Best of both worlds.

But they are absolutely selling their personal images for the money. That’s actually a very unusual thing to do. Hard to know how that will affect them as they try to play real golf again.
 
scooter84 said:
I know I am old but the perspective provided by age really makes me question the motivations of these guys for money, money, money. You're a professional athlete making millions of dollars a year already - what should be important to you is the competition, your legacy, meaningful championships, supporting your community, furthering the game, etc. etc. I mean Bryson was making $15-$20 million per year playing on the PGA tour - how unhappy could you be...
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Maybe it's just me, but I'm looking at this very differently when it comes to the old guys v. the young guys who joined the LIV. I don't mind the over the hill guys leaving for the LIV, especially a guy like Bland who has never had a big pay day. It's not like they've been lighting up the PGA tour recently, and them leaving does little to the level of competition on tour. For them, it's sort of an intermediate tour between the PGA and Senior Tours. But I have zero respect for any guys in their prime or young guys making this leap, specifically DJ, DeChambeau, Reed, Horsefield and Gooch. They have each made the statement they're all about $$ and don't care about golfing glory and would rather play in rich and crappy exhibitions than tournaments that matter.
 
cville deac said:
Maybe it's just me, but I'm looking at this very differently when it comes to the old guys v. the young guys who joined the LIV. I don't mind the over the hill guys leaving for the LIV, especially a guy like Bland who has never had a big pay day. It's not like they've been lighting up the PGA tour recently, and them leaving does little to the level of competition on tour. For them, it's sort of an intermediate tour between the PGA and Senior Tours. But I have zero respect for any guys in their prime or young guys making this leap, specifically DJ, DeChambeau, Reed, Horsefield and Gooch. They have each made the statement they're all about $$ and don't care about golfing glory and would rather play in rich and crappy exhibitions than tournaments that matter.
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Except they will be banned from the Champions tour. So this is a get what you can get and retire tour for them.
 
PhDeac said:
Pretty sure that crowd is pro-Saudi now because that’s what they’ve been told to be.
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Yeah it's been weird to watch my friends that are active military (and golfers) who are Trump fans do the mental gymnastics to somehow support the LIV Tour but want to kill everyone in the Saudi Government for 9/11.

Basically boils down to money being all that matters, which excuses each individual's decision.

I'm amazed anyone found that garbage watchable, let alone compelling. Outside of the crappy resolution/feed and the randomness of the shotgun start, the only difference I noticed in the coverage was the stupid microphones in the cups. Or maybe someone hit a button to make a "golf ball going into a hole" sound for every made putt. Faking it would be much more their style. Hardly any fans, the $200M guy shooting +10, a band warming up during the winning putt - which was made by a guy who clearly anchored half of his attempts but nobody cared. No big names even in contention as everyone just coasted through the round like who cares I already got paid. Plus 2 guys finishing worse than +20, there are probably 10 posters who could have legit beaten them. But they still get 6 figures for their work to help the legitimize the Saudi government.

I think it'll burn more when they bring the circus to the United States. I'd guess there will be protests, likely even more animosity after the US Open puts together some LIV vs. PGA pairings, and probably tossing in douchebags Bryson and Reed and the stellar commentary they'll likely provide... Going to be gross.
 
Many of your points are valid. However, there is no chance 10 posters could have beaten anyone playing. It always amazes me how the average golfer has no idea how good a professional golfer is, even if they are in the fringes of what is considered professional golf. Unless there are 10 posters who are legit plus 5 or 6 handicaps in tournament play that I don’t know about. Because that’s about the bare minimum required to even make some bucks on a mini tour these days.
 
Nope, I absolutely know how good actual pros are. I've even gotten to play with a few of them. I also know how bad the golf was that +24 in just 3 rounds was on a golf course that isn't all that difficult. I would state it more like any tournament-tested plus index would have a really good shot at bettering three 78's, now whether 10 of those exist on the board who knows (I know of probably 4).

I mean, I know an amateur who just shot back-to-back 72's in a much tougher atmosphere against much tougher competition than that crap. +24 is well below "worst player on Korn Ferry" bad. It's more like flirting with Tony Romo mini-tour level. It's doable. That's how bad the bottom of that field was.
 
Ogletree won the US Amateur three years ago. Bernd Weisberger finished 44th. There isn’t a poster on this board that can beat him once out of 100 times. Yes the tournament reeked of an exhibition match. No argument there. But, stop with the hyperbole.

By way of example… William Buhl was +27 through 2 rounds at the RBC. People who finish last in events shoot bad scores. Golf is hard.
 
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Watching the two events this week it’s clear the PGA Tour right now is a way more compelling product. It’s equally clear how awful the coverage is. You’re basically watching commercials with a few golf shots sprinkled in.
 
Les Grossman said:
Watching the two events this week it’s clear the PGA Tour right now is a way more compelling product. It’s equally clear how awful the coverage is. You’re basically watching commercials with a few golf shots sprinkled in.
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Agreed on both counts. Between the two events the difference in the quality of play isn't even close.
 
PhDeac said:
You may be old enough that your frame of reference is an era in which tax rates on the absolute highest earners and lack of wealth hoarding vehicles meant there wasn’t a huge difference between making $15M and making $50M. So people could prioritize legacy etc over just making more money.

Nowadays there’s always more money to be made and plenty of ways to keep it. So people who are wealthy beyond your dreams aspire to have as much as they people who can pay them to be wealthy beyond their dreams.

I don’t know the difference between making $20M in a year and making $100M for effectively doing the same thing. But these golfers can.
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If $15M per year for multiple years doesn't make you rich beyond your dreams and rich enough to be drunkenly happy, then money isn't your problem. That has nothing to do with changes in the tax laws or anything else.

I understand some people are driven to accumulate money and things just for the sake of accumulating - I just think that is sad.

I am trying to think of analogies with other sports and it is difficult... What if Russia backed a fledgling professional basketball league and paid Lebron, Stephon, and a few other major NBA stars $100M/yr guaranteed to go play in a league where most of the rest of the players were barely D-league quality. Would people think it was fine that they left to go chase the money and didn't care about winning a championship? Would the NBA suffer from a loss of headline stars? Would you watch?

What if Duncan before his first championship left the Spurs to go play for the Harlem Globetrotters for $50M/yr guaranteed? Would you have lost respect for him?

What if someone paid Muhammed Ali $100M in his prime to just go fight a bunch of meaningless exhibitions...

None of these analogies work exactly... but you see where I am going...

I am not going to begrudge someone going after the money - but that doesn't mean I have to like it, or respect them as an athlete anymore...
 
golf is so damn pompous part of me finds this hilarious
 
Look, I couldn't agree more LIV is horrible for the game. Why? Because it splits the best players onto different tours, of course. And that's the real reason everyone else hates it too.

But the PGA Tour's strategy here has been the worst--and they are doubling down on such a horrible strategy:

Their strategy is:

1) The folks who can destroy us with money are really evil.
2) You people taking it should be ashamed of yourself. Look at you, you have to apologize.
3) We are in charge and we will punish you

Predictably this did not work. It only creates resentment from the players and the Saudis who are now loading up for more and more.

The strategy all along -- and now ought be:

1) You are free to go play where you want. We will grant you permission as we have in the past.
2) We will be here when you want to come back if you are otherwise eligible.
3) We believe our history and exposure makes us the best tour in the world.
4) We will continue paying the sizable purses we can afford to pay and we believe it will allow us to sustain oursleves over the long haul.
5) It's certainly exciting how much interest there is in the game. This will allow even more spots for young pros. And there are so many great players to support those spots!


By creating and us v. them split, the PGA Tour picked a battle they never needed to pick. And now they are doubling down on it. They are challenging Mike Tyson to a fight.
 
scooter84 said:
If $15M per year for multiple years doesn't make you rich beyond your dreams and rich enough to be drunkenly happy, then money isn't your problem. That has nothing to do with changes in the tax laws or anything else.

I understand some people are driven to accumulate money and things just for the sake of accumulating - I just think that is sad.

I am trying to think of analogies with other sports and it is difficult... What if Russia backed a fledgling professional basketball league and paid Lebron, Stephon, and a few other major NBA stars $100M/yr guaranteed to go play in a league where most of the rest of the players were barely D-league quality. Would people think it was fine that they left to go chase the money and didn't care about winning a championship? Would the NBA suffer from a loss of headline stars? Would you watch?

What if Duncan before his first championship left the Spurs to go play for the Harlem Globetrotters for $50M/yr guaranteed? Would you have lost respect for him?

What if someone paid Muhammed Ali $100M in his prime to just go fight a bunch of meaningless exhibitions...

None of these analogies work exactly... but you see where I am going...

I am not going to begrudge someone going after the money - but that doesn't mean I have to like it, or respect them as an athlete anymore...
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This couldn’t really happen in other major American sports. That’s one reason it’s so interesting. The closest thing I’d the USFL in the early 80s. Of course there was the success of the AFL and ABA eventually joining the “main” league at early stages. But that’s about it.

Golf is a niche sport with a high end fanbase and corporate influence ripe for something like this.
 
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scooter84 said:
Yes, I am serious. WTF is so pompous about a sport?
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C’mon man.

pomp·ous
/ˈpämpəs/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
affectedly and irritatingly grand, solemn, or self-important.
 
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