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Saudi World Golf Tour 2022/2023 Thread

Hideki I will give you - in Japan. But really, there's not a Tiger, Arnie, Jack etc. I mean Spieth and Thomas and Rory are popular players and of course they are PGA Tour players all of them - and will remain - which sort of proves my point about the PGA Tour. But they don't draw massive crowds. I mean you can't take a drone view of a golf course and look down at the galleries and identify where any tour player is these days. You could with Tiger, Jack, Arnie and those guys. That's what Ph referred to as bankable. And he is right - they are/were. But there just isn't a player like that right now. There is incredible parity and depth right now and that always goes in cycles.
 
DeacDiggler said:
a) if they keep buying the top 50 players, that 80% will drop very quickly. As recently as June 1 the posts here were laughing at how crappy the LIV fields were. In less than 2 months they have taken 20% of the top 50, in a sport where there's no team loyalty and prize money IS the prize for most of them.
b) they are going to get a TV package if they keep this up
c) if they keep this up, the leaderboard for the Memorial is going to look exactly like the leaderboard for the John Deere Classic, and the PGA Tour WILL lose viewers. Sure, there are plenty of talented young golfers out there, but there aren't a bunch of overlooked golfers toiling away on the Korn Ferry tour who will make a big splash once they finally make the Tour. They're on the Korn Ferry tour because they aren't as good, and it's not simply "next man up" as far as casual viewers are concerned. Sure, the PGA Tour will continue to have full fields, because there's an endless supply of golfers....but there's not an endless supply of really good golfers.
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The posts as to why this is wrong have been numerous in this thread. No need to rehash. And everyone still laughs at the fields. The best they have are has beens almost all of which are unpopular as golfers and tour dudes. And who are well on their way to disappearing now, even earlier than they were going to had they not left the Tour.
 
guitardeac said:
Hideki I will give you - in Japan. But really, there's not a Tiger, Arnie, Jack etc. I mean Spieth and Thomas and Rory are popular players and of course they are PGA Tour players all of them - and will remain - which sort of proves my point about the PGA Tour. But they don't draw massive crowds. I mean you can't take a drone view of a golf course and look down at the galleries and identify where any tour player is these days. You could with Tiger, Jack, Arnie and those guys. That's what Ph referred to as bankable. And he is right - they are/were. But there just isn't a player like that right now. There is incredible parity and depth right now and that always goes in cycles.
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This is exactly the reason the PGAT should be concerned, not overconfident. IF LIV puts together a compelling broadcast and IF the team format catches on, that will become the “bankable” product. It is clear, whether you want to admit it or not, that their fields are rapidly improving and there is every reason to believe that once the FedEx playoffs and the President’s Cup is done, other top names are going to join.

Norman and LIV have said that the 48 players for next year will remain the same throughout the season. If that is the case, and you are thinking about going and you are a “star” and they are offering you $50 million or more, now-or-never, to get on the train, it is a tough one to turn down.

I’m pulling for the PGAT, but I hope they are not approaching it with anywhere near the level of confidence you seem to suggest they should.
 
DeacHawk said:
potential snapshot of OWGR rankings into next year

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bumping this because LIV won't have as many "top-50" players by the end of the year. The direction on OWGR will be an interesting thing to watch as this continues to unfold.
 
ABCDeac said:
LIV has guys who’ve won 24 majors (of 71) since 2004. That is more than 1/3 of majors since that stretch.

LIV guys have won 11 majors (out of 23) (48%) since 2016.

They’ve won 9 of the last 18 Masters.
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The list of LIV major winners that I can find is:

Phil Mickelson (6: 2004/2006/2010 Masters, 2005/2021 PGA, 2013 Open)
Brooks Koepka (4, 2017/2018 US Open, 2018/2019 PGA)
Bubba Watson: (2, 2012/2014 Masters)
Dustin Johnson (2: 2016 US Open, 2020 Masters)
Martin Kaymer: (2: 2010 PGA, 2014 US Open)
Bryson DeChambeau (1: 2020 US Open)
Patrick Reed (1: 2018 Masters)
Sergio Garcia: (1: 2017 Masters)
Louis Oosthuizen: (1: 2010 Open)
Charl Schwartzel: (1: 2011 Masters)
Graeme McDowell: (1: 2010 US Open)
Henrik Stenson (1: 2016 Open)

That's only 23 majors so I may be missing one. But of these guys, there is exactly one under the age of 30 (Bryson, 28). The average age of these LIV major winners is 38.9 (37.7 without Phil). Of these 12 guys, 6 of them are in the top 75 ranking. Of the ones in the top 75, the ages are: 38, 32, 39, 28, 31, 42. If you extend that to the top 100, you can include 43 year old Bubba and 52 year old Phil.

Yes, LIV has signed some major winners. Some of those major wins were even recent (mostly by Brooks). But if you consider age, pretty much all of these guys are unlikely to ever win another major. More importantly, they aren't particularly competitive on a week to week basis.
 
Cam Young started today in 78th place. He's now leading the PGAT stop in Detroit as he is -9 for the day (-10 for the tourney) through 16 holes.

Young's round this morning includes holing out his 2nd shot on the par 4 13th. The velocity of the shot hitting the hole required repair work on the cup: https://www.pgatour.com/video/2022/07/29/cameron-young-s-impressive-hole-out-leads-to-repairs-on-no--13-a.html

Despite their success, neither Zalatoris or Young have won on the PGAT. This could be the week that Young grabs a title.
 
DeacHawk said:
bumping this because LIV won't have as many "top-50" players by the end of the year. The direction on OWGR will be an interesting thing to watch as this continues to unfold.
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A good golfer in the top 50 now will still be a good golfer on LIV.

Rankings only mean as much as fans want them to mean.
 
PhDeac said:
A good golfer in the top 50 now will still be a good golfer on LIV.

Rankings only mean as much as fans want them to mean.
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No. OWG Rankings matter because they decide who gets into majors. Majors (Masters, US Open, PGA, Open Championship) drive golf. Everything else is secondary. If LIV players (who don't have another exemption) get knocked out of majors then they become after thoughts. No one is going to care who wins the LIV Bedminster Title (or the Rocket Mortgage PGAT for that matter, but a player earns OWGR points for winning the Rocket Mortgage, but not the LIV events). If you can't play in majors, then you don't exist to the public as a pro golfer.
 
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Pilchard said:
No. OWG Rankings matter because they decide who gets into majors. Majors (Masters, US Open, PGA, Open Championship) drive golf. Everything else is secondary. If LIV players (who don't have another exemption) get knocked out of majors then they become after thoughts. No one is going to care who wins the LIV Bedminster Title (or the Rocket Mortgage PGAT for that matter, but a player earns OWGR points for winning the Rocket Mortgage, but not the LIV events). If you can't play in majors, then you don't exist to the public as a pro golfer.
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Correct. And Norman's Bedminster poolside interview where he called a bunch of the OWGR group a "cabal" (oh, the irony) should do wonders for LIV's chances of getting OWGR recognition. Wonder if the Saudis will "hide" him from public view soon. . .
 
PhDeac said:
LOL
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Did you just remove half of his sentence so you could win an argument? You literally posted rankings only mean what fans want them to mean, and his sentence clearly refutes that (very wrong) hot take.
 
Think PhD just wanted to emphasize that

OWG could be "Old White Guy"...

d541d6d461540d3aeb6bb7198376575d.jpeg
 
Pilchard said:
Think PhD just wanted to emphasize that

OWG could be "Old White Guy"...

d541d6d461540d3aeb6bb7198376575d.jpeg
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Yeah. Simple joke. Fan perception of the rankings are also OWG rankings.
 
There are rumors that the Saudis may dump Norman as the LIV leader. If so, would suggest that Greg not accept any invites for a private meeting at a Saudi consulate.
 
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