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The last 2 mens basketball coaches.....

Chris Mack has too much sense to even consider the Wake job. He is much better off where he is. Many other coaches feel the same way. Wake has a president, board and administration that could care less about sports. Add to that a student body that knows nothing of "school spirit". (except perhaps alcohol) Add to that being in a conference that a coach will never win a championship because of the above. Not really a great coaching gig. Only thing good about the Wake gig is the money. If a coach can save his money and deal with losing, in the end he will have a good retirement. (Jim Grobe) Come to think of it that's what Hatch will have. Do nothing to support the athletic program Hatch, hang in for years, and you have a nice retirement. At least at Davidson, Coach Mckillop has a chance to win championships. Not here without drastic changes.
 
Chris Mack has too much sense to even consider the Wake job. He is much better off where he is. Many other coaches feel the same way. Wake has a president, board and administration that could care less about sports. Add to that a student body that knows nothing of "school spirit". (except perhaps alcohol) Add to that being in a conference that a coach will never win a championship because of the above. Not really a great coaching gig. Only thing good about the Wake gig is the money. If a coach can save his money and deal with losing, in the end he will have a good retirement. (Jim Grobe) Come to think of it that's what Hatch will have. Do nothing to support the athletic program Hatch, hang in for years, and you have a nice retirement. At least at Davidson, Coach Mckillop has a chance to win championships. Not here without drastic changes.

The bolded simply are not true. There are no impediments to winning a championship at Wake Forest that cannot be overcome by a good (or great) coach. We need to stop kidding ourselves. Basketball is not football. All you need to do is recruit a superstar, a couple of other stars and a few good support players - all being players that fit together well - and provide great coaching. It can be done here just like it can be done anywhere else. The only impediment our administration has put in our place is an impossibly horrible hire (in Bzzzzz) and, for now, an unproven hire in Manning.

Tacy built a great program - advanced in the ACC and NCAA tourneys and won with regularity. Odom recruited some great players, won ACC championships and advanced in the NCAA - making the Wake program literally a national power there for a bit. Skip instilled excitement and recruited some great players as well - taking us to a No. 1 ranking (or was that Dino with Skip's players?) and, again, making us relevant nationally - his lack of defensive coaching probably kept those teams from doing even more damage.

What makes y'all think it can't be done, all of a sudden? Oh, there are some more good teams in our league now! boohoo! So what? Neither Hatch nor Wellman is stopping Manning from putting together a successful program - if he fails, he fails on his own at this point. If Manning turns out to be the wrong hire, or a bad hire, that is on Wellman, of course. But we can't blame the administration for any failure by Manning. They aren't stopping him from recruiting great players. I'm sure there are a few players in the top 100 that we couldn't get into school, probably a few more than most other schools, but there are plenty of others that we would admit - don't kid yourselves. And they aren't stopping from from coaching the current players up or designing game plans or making in-game adjustments. At this point it is up to Manning to succeed - I am hopeful that he can do it, but it looks like it is going to take longer than we hoped.
 
Carl Tacy and Dave Odom would have trouble in the ACC of today. Notre Dame, Pitt, Syracuse and Louisville. The old programs like FSU, GT, Virginia and Clemson now care about basketball. And remember the President of Wake Forest University during Dave and Carl's coaching days was not Nathan Hatch.
Wonder why 5 star recruits of today shy away from Wake. Because it's a new Wake, nothing like the Wake of Bones McKinney or Jackie Murdock. Not even like the Wake of Odom and Tacy. Some things are for the good. Many are for the money. Most are about a constant war between academics and athletics. I really don't know why we can't seem to work together. Academics are very jealous of successful athletics.
 
Please stop the academic crap...we're a top 25 school not a top 10. Last time I looked ND, Duke and VA are above us.
 
Carl Tacy and Dave Odom would have trouble in the ACC of today. Notre Dame, Pitt, Syracuse and Louisville. The old programs like FSU, GT, Virginia and Clemson now care about basketball. And remember the President of Wake Forest University during Dave and Carl's coaching days was not Nathan Hatch.
Wonder why 5 star recruits of today shy away from Wake. Because it's a new Wake, nothing like the Wake of Bones McKinney or Jackie Murdock. Not even like the Wake of Odom and Tacy. Some things are for the good. Many are for the money. Most are about a constant war between academics and athletics. I really don't know why we can't seem to work together. Academics are very jealous of successful athletics.

Actually none of this is true. 5 star recruits don't shy away from Wake Forest - we just haven't had a coach with a strong enough message or a strong enough resume to convince them to come here.
Someone please give me a concrete example of something Nathan Hatch has done or is doing that is preventing us from having a successful basketball program. The only possible impact would be limiting the admissions exceptions but I have seen no sign of us backing off of any recruits that we would normally go after. Have any of you?
If anything, playing is a strong ACC is good for us - provides an exciting and enticing environment to recruit into, provides expanded exposure, and provides respect from the NCAA tourney and more opportunities to get in.
 
Enough with the facts! They are not conducive to the LOWF argument.
 
Could have and should have hired Chris Mack from Xaiver.

Probably still could with the right package ... although I'm sure Dino would get in his ear and tell him that it's the 2nd worst job in the ACC. Of course, he might be right!
 
Without knowing the exact breakdown, there is agreement between Hatch, BOT and Wellman about what direction the program should have. It's awful.

The word is out. WF is not serious about building a winning program, so it will be extremely difficult to get a proven coach under this regime. That is why they need to go. The more turnover out of those 3, the better.

Once that happens, I am confident we can be a top program again, given the position of the university as a whole, which is much stronger than it was 10-15 years ago when we had a good team.

I don't blame DM, though he could be doing better. The stink of the current admin and [name redacted] is so strong, it can't get sucked out in 1 or 2 seasons unless we hit a grandslam in recruiting.
 
Probably still could with the right package ... although I'm sure Dino would get in his ear and tell him that it's the 2nd worst job in the ACC. Of course, he might be right!

2nd worst in the ACC? By what measure? I would say VaTech, BC, Clemson, FSU are all clearly worse jobs. UNC, Duke, UVA, Louisville and probably ND are clearly better. Miami? (little tradition, poor fan support, but Larranaga is doing a great job right now) Syracuse? (what happens when Boeheim leaves?) NCSU? (a couple of ancient titles, a lot of tradition, a delusional but rabid fan base, inconsistent results over the past few decades) GaTech? (a little tradition, very inconsistent results - some really poor years). As a job I would argue that we are no worse than middle of the pack in the ACC - and likely better.
 
I agree with others on here. If there was some administration limitation on recruiting then why would other sports at Wake be recruiting the absolute best players in the country? The soccer team signed Jack Harrison, the national high school player of the year, and a one-and-done player. The tennis team signed Noah Rubin, the best US recruit in the past 20 years and another player who stayed only one year. In fact, he was talking about going pro before even setting foot on campus and played only pro events during the fall semester.

If Manning had a top 10 player ready to sign, the administration would welcome that player with open arms. Wake can field championship caliber teams - suggesting the administration is holding us back is just making an excuse for poor coaching and/or recruiting.
 
Without knowing the exact breakdown, there is agreement between Hatch, BOT and Wellman about what direction the program should have. It's awful.

The word is out. WF is not serious about building a winning program, so it will be extremely difficult to get a proven coach under this regime. That is why they need to go. The more turnover out of those 3, the better.

Once that happens, I am confident we can be a top program again, given the position of the university as a whole, which is much stronger than it was 10-15 years ago when we had a good team.

I don't blame DM, though he could be doing better. The stink of the current admin and [name redacted] is so strong, it can't get sucked out in 1 or 2 seasons unless we hit a grandslam in recruiting.

The bolded - really? So exactly how would such a direction be defined? "We really want to be bad at basketball" That makes no sense. What is in it for them? Is that direction why Manning went all-in recruiting Giles? None of the actions by or around the program indicates any policy being established to hamstring the program. I call BS.
 
The bolded - really? So exactly how would such a direction be defined? "We really want to be bad at basketball" That makes no sense. What is in it for them? Is that direction why Manning went all-in recruiting Giles? None of the actions by or around the program indicates any policy being established to hamstring the program. I call BS.

So a coach who had 2 20-win seasons in a row under tough circumstances, given an extension, then fired for not performing in March... to bring in [Redacted] was simply a step to being a better program?

They already said "culture" was a defining aspect of the program. They set that as the standard, not winning.

I'm not saying we don't go after good players. But if you claim you want postseason success, then none of your decisions or public comments indicate that, what would you call it? Just incompetence?

And you say none of the actions by the program indicates hamstringing?! Have you watched us the last 6 seasons?
 
There were few articles out there about Chris Mack being considered by Wake Forest then Mitt Shah tweeted a picture of him and Mack with their arms around each other's shoulder. I took that as a sign that the door was open. Maybe I over interpreted a tweet. There was a fervent anti - Prosser coaching tree contingent on these boards that I never understood.

It's all irrelevant, there is no way Mack is coming here now, he's easily the top three in the Big East and has no need to leave. But the point is that Shaka and Miller were the big names but Mack had ties to the school, had seen a lot of success at Xaiver over 5 years and was a gettable coach that Wellman passed over or didn't really consider, because Wellman is not a good AD.
 
So a coach who had 2 20-win seasons in a row under tough circumstances, given an extension, then fired for not performing in March... to bring in [Redacted] was simply a step to being a better program?

They already said "culture" was a defining aspect of the program. They set that as the standard, not winning.

I'm not saying we don't go after good players. But if you claim you want postseason success, then none of your decisions or public comments indicate that, what would you call it? Just incompetence?

And you say none of the actions by the program indicates hamstringing?! Have you watched us the last 6 seasons?

I'm really focusing on the 'right now'. What limitations are being place on the program by the administration right now that are preventing us from being good? None.

I would agree that the Dino firing was at least partially related to an over-reaction to some bad stuff going on in and around the program. But I think it was also related to Wellman's apparent poor relationship with Dino. The Bzzzz hiring is simply and completely unexplainable - and any explanation offered by anyone here is simply a guess. It was the worst hire in history anyway.
Those past actions definitely placed the program in a hole - making it a difficult job to re-build - but difficult for all the normal reasons, not any special limitations placed on the program by the administration.
 
This topic presupposes that other, better coaches were available...and interested.
 
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