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What's Our ACC Record with Coach ________?

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slickdeac

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Put me in the camp that doesn't think talent is the problem. The free throws are not on the coach, but besides that... The shot selections, (some of the) crazy turnovers, terrible lineups, bad inbounds plays, lack of player development, etc.... They are on Manning.

It's a pointless exercise, but what is our record in the ACC with... Shaka? Coach K? Howland? Dino?
 
Why aren't the free throws the coach's fault? He doesn't control how often they practice free throws? It isn't something that is overly hard to get at least competent at. It is just a coincidence that nobody we recruited can shoot FTs?
 
Fair. How bout we compromise at TBD or N/A because we just don't know how this is focused on during practice. For all we know they're 80% as a team during practice and then mentally weak during the games...
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Why aren't the free throws the coach's fault? He doesn't control how often they practice free throws? It isn't something that is overly hard to get at least competent at. It is just a coincidence that nobody we recruited can shoot FTs?
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I really think that Devin works hard on free throws, I've heard him say after a night game he'll stop by the on-campus gym and make 100 before leaving. Unfortunately, I just think a guy like him isn't ever going to be a good free throw shooter. Just doesn't have the touch, you can work on your form, your pre-shot routine, mental stuff, but if you're a guy that just doesn't have the touch it's tough to overcome. Look at some of the NBA players that have been playing the game for 25 years (from childhood), have received the best coaching in the world and still suck from the line.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Why aren't the free throws the coach's fault? He doesn't control how often they practice free throws? It isn't something that is overly hard to get at least competent at. It is just a coincidence that nobody we recruited can shoot FTs?
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Bc you don't pay a coach millions of dollars to say "Alright guys, spend the next 30 minutes shooting free throws." That is on the players and the team leaders to encourage extra effort, outside of scheduled practice time. If I'm Devin Thomas or CMM, I'm calling players only meetings and asking each player that wants to get better and win basketball games to shoot X amount of free throws, and then I do double to lead by example. That's what leaders do.

That SHOULD be an extremely easy thing to encourage players to do, relative to "ok guys, lets run X amount more wind sprints" or "have defensive slide drills for X amount more time" or "run through offensive sets for X amount more time" after practice. Manning can't legally ask players to do things like that, but players can, and leaders do.
 
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liveanddiedeac said:
I really think that Devin works hard on free throws, I've heard him say after a night game he'll stop by the on-campus gym and make 100 before leaving. Unfortunately, I just think a guy like him isn't ever going to be a good free throw shooter. Just doesn't have the touch, you can work on your form, your pre-shot routine, mental stuff, but if you're a guy that just doesn't have the touch it's tough to overcome. Look at some of the NBA players that have been playing the game for 25 years (from childhood), have received the best coaching in the world and still suck from the line.
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Devin's form is godawful. He does well considering his form, which means he does practice. He has way to much upper body movement. Too many moving parts to all come together. It looks like he starts the ball in decent form then moves it over to in front of his head before he shoots. I have been working with my son for a while. Practice and correct form is the key. There is no reason that a decent shooting coach plus one summer of practice should not make anyone a 70% shooter. You won't be Steph Curry, but you can be decent. It is hard to change someones shot during the season. Has to be done over the summer. Is not that hard.
 
Demonwolverine said:
Bc you don't pay a coach millions of dollars to say "Alright guys, spend the next 30 minutes shooting free throws." That is on the players and the team leaders to encourage extra effort, outside of scheduled practice time. If I'm Devin Thomas or CMM, I'm calling players only meetings and asking each player that wants to get better and win basketball games to shoot X amount of free throws, and then I do double to lead by example. That's what leaders do.

That SHOULD be an extremely easy thing to encourage players to do, relative to "ok guys, lets run X amount more wind sprints" or "have defensive slide drills for X amount more time" or "run through offensive sets for X amount more time" after practice. Manning can't legally ask players to do things like that, but players can, and leaders do.
Click to expand...

If you keep losing seemingly every single game because you can't hit free throws, then, yes, you do pay the coach to get them to shoot free throws better. His job is to win games. If that means he has to focus more on free throws because we clearly suck at it, then that is what he has to do.
 
I'd donate $500 to charity to see Knowell and 2&2 coach the Wake basketball team on free throws. I'll donate an extra $5 per percentage point the team increases throughout the year from that point forward. Something tells me I'll be donating a total of...$500. Maybe $505
 
And again, if a decent shooting coach + a summer of shooting should put the average player at over 70% then why has the D I average never been above 70% in the history of the sport? Surely these schools have decent shooting coaches and a summer of practicing free throws at the collegiate level.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
If you keep losing seemingly every single game because you can't hit free throws, then, yes, you do pay the coach to get them to shoot free throws better. His job is to win games. If that means he has to focus more on free throws because we clearly suck at it, then that is what he has to do.
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So what part of our game do you suggest we stop working on in favor of spending 30 minutes a practice shooting free throws?

Again, I think it's a team leadership issue. One that will hopefully be, at least in part, remedied next year when there are no seniors and no presumed leaders. Someone needs to step up. I know we're putting a lot of faith and pressure on our freshman, but one more thing we need them to be is a cohesive group of leaders.
 
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2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Shooting 3s.
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Does it look like we spend a lot of time practicing our 3 point shooting? (Also, another thing they could work on in a players only practice)

I really would have thought that if anything, Danny could express to these guys the work ethic it takes to A: win in college and B: make it to the pros. Shooting free throws until you make 100 is something I would do in high school if I shot 60% from the line. If I'm Devin Thomas with even a remote shot of getting drafted into the NBA, I'm shooting until I make 500. Especially since DT needs to improve his shooting ability anyway.
 
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knowell said:
Devin's form is godawful. He does well considering his form, which means he does practice. He has way to much upper body movement. Too many moving parts to all come together. It looks like he starts the ball in decent form then moves it over to in front of his head before he shoots. I have been working with my son for a while. Practice and correct form is the key. There is no reason that a decent shooting coach plus one summer of practice should not make anyone a 70% shooter. You won't be Steph Curry, but you can be decent. It is hard to change someones shot during the season. Has to be done over the summer. Is not that hard.
Click to expand...

The fact that Devin or Codi don't shoot FTs better after 4 years in the program is an indictment on coaching. Both have obviously correctable problems. Neither would likely ever be a 80-90% range player but 70%, yes that's doable, with what I see. 70% from these 2 in ACC games I guess would have given us 4-5 more wins.

Coach Lehmann coached the Campbell Camp I attended as a child. He could make 20 in a row while talking with kids, several made while not looking at the goal. I was so mad after one loss this year I went to the Y to shoot FTs. Hadn't shot a bball in 6 months, and at 57, made 8-10.....(was making a point for my nephew....)
 
80deac said:
The fact that Devin or Codi don't shoot FTs better after 4 years in the program is an indictment on coaching. Both have obviously correctable problems. Neither would likely ever be a 80-90% range player but 70%, yes that's doable, with what I see. 70% from these 2 in ACC games I guess would have given us 4-5 more wins.

Coach Lehmann coached the Campbell Camp I attended as a child. He could make 20 in a row while talking with kids, several made while not looking at the goal. I was so mad after one loss this year I went to the Y to shoot FTs. Hadn't shot a bball in 6 months, and at 57, made 8-10.....(was making a point for my nephew....)
Click to expand...

I was bitching to my boys about Wake's FT shooting and said I bet I can go out right now with two warm ups and hit 7-10. They didn't believe me. I did it. I can't remember the last time I played in an organized bball game. FT shooting can be improved.
 
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