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Lol at the new WakeWill campaign

wakephan09 said:
Man, a bunch of whiners here. Every school on earth sends out a million mailers a year. If you don't want to give, don't give.

I agree with all of the complaints about administrative bloat, but those problems exist everywhere. We're just all sad because we suck balls at sports. If we were awesome and everyone went out and rolled the quad every week and we were on ESPN all the time we'd all be acting completely different.

So the crux of this whole thread is that 1) private higher education in the US is too expensive and 2) we all take sports way too seriously.
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This is the best post in the entire thread.

Wake Forest certainly has its fair share of problems, and the mailer with the bracket was a poor idea given our current status as a bad basketball school, but Wake Forest is still a top 30 school. Does it cost too much? Hell yes it costs too much, but that's a national problem, not one that is solely a Wake Forest problem.
 
WFU Lurker said:
Comparing the numbers directly is making the assumption that the students are from the same quality of schools. My hypothesis is that we are skewing towards quality (as we move to a more national student body), but I have no data to back it up. In my mind, if today's students are lower quality it's more likely driven by the size of the student body, not the cost of attendance.
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I am afraid to wade into this debate but here it goes...

I know a few people brilliant people that have gone to Wake and a few not to smart that money, company, or political connections got them in. An example of a great person was one who got the Hankins scholarship and was accepted into UNC, Duke, and NCSU Engineering School and choose Wake. On the other hand, I know an MBA candidate that had a mid 2.0 undergrad GPA and a lower 400 GMAT go to Wake. They were able to get their GPA and GMAT waived so it wouldn't have to be reported and was accepted on the fact that their company was paying for their education.

In all honesty, Wake is a school that goes both ways in terms of students. You have some that are truly remarkable that go there and some that you would rather not think about that have gone there. I would like to think that we are trending positive in regards to students and that money and bloat hasn't corrupted the system.
 
RaleighTriad said:
I am afraid to wade into this debate but here it goes...

I know a few people brilliant people that have gone to Wake and a few not to smart that money, company, or political connections got them in. An example of a great person was one who got the Hankins scholarship and was accepted into UNC, Duke, and NCSU Engineering School and choose Wake. On the other hand, I know an MBA candidate that had a mid 2.0 undergrad GPA and a lower 400 GMAT go to Wake. They were able to get their GPA and GMAT waived so it wouldn't have to be reported and was accepted on the fact that their company was paying for their education.

In all honesty, Wake is a school that goes both ways in terms of students. You have some that are truly remarkable that go there and some that you would rather not think about that have gone there. I would like to think that we are trending positive in regards to students and that money and bloat hasn't corrupted the system.
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The MBA program has never been as selective as the undergraduate program. There's a reason they discontinued the full-time MBA.
 
The mailer was just another poor idea in a laundry list of poor ideas that Wake has had and will continue to have. The administration is just so tone deaf it's maddening.
 
coredeac said:
Competitive revenue sports was an excellent bridge between Wake and the general Triad community.

That bridge has successfully been burned. Wake has really distanced itself from the local community. Other than the medical facilities, I think very few in the community have any interaction with Wake Forest. That's why fielding competitive teams was critical to the university's relationship with the local community. Currently, it might as well be a million miles from Winston. It's a real shame that so much goodwill and community support has been squandered in record time. But, athletically, Wake appears to be heading in a different direction than most of us would prefer.

As for the university? I've basically lost all interest.
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I disagree that the link between Wake and Winston-Salem has been burned, and I think a lot of the discussion on here reflects selective memory. A few examples of Wake and the community:

- You think Wake football attendance was better in the 80s and 90s? Unfortunately I can't find many box scores from back then, but here are some from 1997 (the earliest year I could quickly find). http://www.wakeforestsports.com/sports/m-footbl/archive/97review/schedule.html You'll notice that we drew 22,000 for GT and 24,000 for NCSU at the beginning of the year. Despite having several down seasons, Wake football has averaged 28,000 fans at home games the last several years. Here are the numbers http://www.ncaa.org/championships/statistics/ncaa-football-attendance I think it's pretty clear that football attendance in the past several decades was certainly not higher than it is now.
- Two years ago Wake Forest formalized a relationship with Twin City Soccer, the largest youth soccer program in the Triad. Thousands of kids attend Wake soccer games now each fall. It's completely different than it was in the 1990s. In fact, Wake Forest had the highest college soccer attendance in the country this past season. Here's a great video from 2 seasons ago to give you an idea of the atmosphere if you haven't been https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imTQUu6gIwk
- The Skip Prosser Literacy Program has been extremely successful for 4th graders across Forsyth County, with Wake basketball players reading in schools in Winston-Salem and kids recognized at halftime of a Wake basketball game.
- The last two years the women's basketball team has had school day, where they play a game during the day and elementary school students attend. They shattered an attendance record this year with 8,500 students in attendance.

I could go on. Living in Winston, I don't see this burned bridge. Yes, men's basketball attendance is down, but that's because we've been bad for several years. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
teachndeac said:
A larger, more disturbing issue: My freshman year (79-80) tuition was $3300 and a double in Kitchen was another $500 per year. Corrected for inflation that equates to about $12,500 today, yet someone on this thread says our current tuition and fees is north of $65K.

I realize this is not unique to Wake, but that is an issue that needs to be addressed. How have college costs risen at 5X the rate of inflation?

Is it bloated administration as Ph suggests? Has campus turned into Disney World?
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It's a combination of admin bloat, facilities arms races, etc. This has largely been enabled by federal student loan programs, especially in past 10-15 years. The govt. is willing to give loans to 18-22 year olds that cover the cost of their education, which allows the schools to ramp up their prices since the govt. is willing to loan out the money. I would bet that the federal government could actually bring down the cost, or at least slow its rapid growth, by lowering the the cap on federal loans. This would inevitably change the demand and the price will eventually equalize. Every school, with the exception of the ones with huge endowments that are able to meet 100% of need, relies on federal student loans. Lower the cap and the rate at which students will be choosing their respective public options will increase to a point where schools like Wake will have no option but to make the price more competitive.
 
The real situation is that Wake is never going to consistently break the into the top 20. Which is fine. For a smaller school with limited graduate programs and little national recognition, 25-30 is pretty good. But it becomes very hard to justify $65k for a school that doesn't have a national reputation. Especially if that experience is going to be watered down by a bunch of under-qualified rich kids.
 
flagship state schools (and probably schools as a whole) all over the country are taking fewer and fewer in state kids because they can charge more tuition to out of state kids. goes hand in hand with the administrative bloat that has become all to common. wake isn't a trailblazer. they are just trying to keep up with the competition. nice job nathan.
 
wakephan09 said:
Man, a bunch of whiners here. Every school on earth sends out a million mailers a year. If you don't want to give, don't give.

I agree with all of the complaints about administrative bloat, but those problems exist everywhere. We're just all sad because we suck balls at sports. If we were awesome and everyone went out and rolled the quad every week and we were on ESPN all the time we'd all be acting completely different.

So the crux of this whole thread is that 1) private higher education in the US is too expensive and 2) we all take sports way too seriously.
Click to expand...

But, yeah, this sums it up perfectly.
 
Rafi said:
I disagree that the link between Wake and Winston-Salem has been burned, and I think a lot of the discussion on here reflects selective memory. A few examples of Wake and the community:

- You think Wake football attendance was better in the 80s and 90s? Unfortunately I can't find many box scores from back then, but here are some from 1997 (the earliest year I could quickly find). http://www.wakeforestsports.com/sports/m-footbl/archive/97review/schedule.html You'll notice that we drew 22,000 for GT and 24,000 for NCSU at the beginning of the year. Despite having several down seasons, Wake football has averaged 28,000 fans at home games the last several years. Here are the numbers http://www.ncaa.org/championships/statistics/ncaa-football-attendance I think it's pretty clear that football attendance in the past several decades was certainly not higher than it is now.
- Two years ago Wake Forest formalized a relationship with Twin City Soccer, the largest youth soccer program in the Triad. Thousands of kids attend Wake soccer games now each fall. It's completely different than it was in the 1990s. In fact, Wake Forest had the highest college soccer attendance in the country this past season. Here's a great video from 2 seasons ago to give you an idea of the atmosphere if you haven't been https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imTQUu6gIwk
- The Skip Prosser Literacy Program has been extremely successful for 4th graders across Forsyth County, with Wake basketball players reading in schools in Winston-Salem and kids recognized at halftime of a Wake basketball game.
- The last two years the women's basketball team has had school day, where they play a game during the day and elementary school students attend. They shattered an attendance record this year with 8,500 students in attendance.

I could go on. Living in Winston, I don't see this burned bridge. Yes, men's basketball attendance is down, but that's because we've been bad for several years. Nothing more, nothing less.
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The only thing less reliable that self-reported SAT scores? Wake Forest football and basketball attendance numbers.
 
DistrictDeacon said:
The only thing less reliable that self-reported SAT scores? Wake Forest football and basketball attendance numbers.
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So you think Wake was really accurate in reporting attendance back in 1997 but since then there's been a big change?
 
Rafi said:
So you think Wake was really accurate in reporting attendance back in 1997 but since then there's been a big change?
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You would know better than us about how the system works. Dart board? Spinning wheel? Drunk monkey on a pogo stick?
 
DistrictDeacon said:
You would know better than us about how the system works. Dart board? Spinning wheel? Drunk monkey on a pogo stick?
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paulTheOctopus_1680215c.jpg
 
DistrictDeacon said:
The real situation is that Wake is never going to consistently break the into the top 20. Which is fine. For a smaller school with limited graduate programs and little national recognition, 25-30 is pretty good. But it becomes very hard to justify $65k for a school that doesn't have a national reputation. Especially if that experience is going to be watered down by a bunch of under-qualified rich kids.
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Wake is ranked 30th in the best buy category of US News http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandr...kings/national-universities/best-value/page+2

Wake is ranked 10th in undergraduate teaching in US News http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandr.../national-universities/undergraduate-teaching
 
DistrictDeacon said:
You would know better than us about how the system works. Dart board? Spinning wheel? Drunk monkey on a pogo stick?
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Why in world would I know how college football attendance works? You must have me confused with someone else.
 
PhDeac said:
I'm missing something here, 923. Your numbers show a significant decline in valedictorians and a likely drop in percent who were in the top of their class (50% in the top 5% vs. 75% in the top 10%). The drop in valedictorians is particularly striking because the freshman class is much bigger now compared to the late 90s.
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The drop in number of reported valedictorians could reflect the public school systems that no longer name valedictorian/salutatorian for graduating classes and only honor Top 10%. Latest reflection of the participation ribbon generation.
 
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