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MTOW: Moore doesn't have a problem with stamina

dot com said:
He was completely gassed after his opening minutes last night from what I could see.
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Hands on his shorts at the free throw line [usually a clear indication], then the air ball free throw [another indication] and sucking for air mouth breathing. But he played great and I hope he continues because he has great potential.
 
Deaconblue said:
So you would have Doral standing at the defensive end once he gets winded and have Wake play offense 4 on 5? There were times last night when he was barely making it past half court when he was near the end of a shift. Danny needs to find a way to play Doral like hockey coaches play lines. Change often.
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Probably makes sense when Manning said last night, "We're going to play him in short bursts of minutes. That's when he's most effective." I'm sure this is an absolutely CRAZY assertion to some folks on here — but it could be entirely within the realm of possibility that CDM understands how to effectively coach big men in the college game, and has a great feel for the strengths and limitations of the post players on his roster. I hate to resort to crazy talk like this on here.
 
RivalsLes said:
Probably makes sense when Manning said last night, "We're going to play him in short bursts of minutes. That's when he's most effective." I'm sure this is an absolutely CRAZY assertion to some folks on here — but it could be entirely within the realm of possibility that CDM understands how to effectively coach big men in the college game, and has a great feel for the strengths and limitations of the post players on his roster. I hate to resort to crazy talk like this on here.
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No place for rational talk on here, Les.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
Conditioning should be a big priority for him during the offseason. He's got the chance to be really special. He's got 2 things that are sometimes rare for 7+ footers, especially freshman. 1) He appears to have good hand-eye coordination and overall coordination, and- 2) He has a good frame for his height, he's not a string bean 7 footer. Of the legimate 7 footers I've seen Wake have, he's shown the most skill I think. Duncan I don't think was 7 feet or at least never listed as 7 feet while at Wake.
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Loren Woods
 
Playing Doral in three to five minute bursts makes sense. It has maximized his production and it addresses conditioning. Doral certainly was ready when Manning stated 'next man up' and gave Doral the start. As he has often said to justify Doral's limited PT, he is playing behind a senior averaging a double-double.

Doing so once or twice a game has not made sense in light of an eleven game losing streak and the fact that DT has averaged 30 minutes a game and Doral has averaged six. The four minute differential (often filled by a fourth perimeter player) would have been better utilized with Moore, especially considering our lack of defense and losing streak. From my perspective, Manning has done a good job developing Doral but was too slow implementing his talents.

Of course, this was against BC. Notre Dame could be a different matter.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
I guess, but Woods was such a bust for us compared to expectations. Let's just hope Moore has a much, much better career at Wake than Woods.
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Woods became a decent college player after his transfer, but never became what he should have as a top 10 HS player. He was definitely the wrong guy to understudy/play beside/follow Timmay.
 
BlackjackMc said:
Playing Doral in three to five minute bursts makes sense. It has maximized his production and it addresses conditioning. Doral certainly was ready when Manning stated 'next man up' and gave Doral the start. As he has often said to justify Doral's limited PT, he is playing behind a senior averaging a double-double.

Doing so once or twice a game has not made sense in light of an eleven game losing streak and the fact that DT has averaged 30 minutes a game and Doral has averaged six. The four minute differential (often filled by a fourth perimeter player) would have been better utilized with Moore, especially considering our lack of defense and losing streak. From my perspective, Manning has done a good job developing Doral but was too slow implementing his talents.

Of course, this was against BC. Notre Dame could be a different matter.
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Doral played 12 at Notre Dame, and despite overall "looking" good, contributed "just" four points, two rebounds and two blocked shots. At the time, however, it was the most he'd played against ACC competition, and I thought he held his own.
 
Since we lost 11 straight, a lot of which was because we couldn't defend, it would seem to not be a crazy plan to play the 7'1" guy a little more in favor of Collins and DT who are horrible defenders.
 
That was also the first game he and Devin played extended minutes together. Doral played well and his presence allowed DT a freedom of movement on which he capitalized. Check the play by play to verify. That game should have put the idea that DM and DT could not play together to rest.
 
#DMsandbagging

TJDK. Let the Big Diesel out of the truck stop the rest of the way! :thumbsup:
 
RivalsLes said:
Probably makes sense when Manning said last night, "We're going to play him in short bursts of minutes. That's when he's most effective." I'm sure this is an absolutely CRAZY assertion to some folks on here — but it could be entirely within the realm of possibility that CDM understands how to effectively coach big men in the college game, and has a great feel for the strengths and limitations of the post players on his roster. I hate to resort to crazy talk like this on here.
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So DM is forced into playing Doral more than 5 minutes in a game, and he blows up. And we win, albeit against a DIII school. But in most games this year, Doral plays his 3-4 minutes of the 1st half, put up roughly 6 pts, 3 reb, 1 blk per, and never sees the court again. But somehow DM is an effective big man coach? And he has had another 7 footer for almost 2 years now, and he cant sniff the court. I would argue the opposite, that he has issues utilizing the strengths of the big men on the team, considering one plays 5 minutes a game, and the other doesn't play at all. And it has probably cost us a few games this year too.
 
Vegas Jethro said:
So DM is forced into playing Doral more than 5 minutes in a game, and he blows up. And we win, albeit against a DIII school. But in most games this year, Doral plays his 3-4 minutes of the 1st half, put up roughly 6 pts, 3 reb, 1 blk per, and never sees the court again. But somehow DM is an effective big man coach? And he has had another 7 footer for almost 2 years now, and he cant sniff the court. I would argue the opposite, that he has issues utilizing the strengths of the big men on the team, considering one plays 5 minutes a game, and the other doesn't play at all. And it has probably cost us a few games this year too.
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Well your argument would simply be wrong.

Moore played about 7-8 minutes a game in his senior year of high school, and came to Wake as a long-term project. He's absolutely worked his tail off, and has advanced significantly since arriving on campus over the summer. He still has endurance issues, but those will get better as coach Horn continues to have him in the strength and conditioning program.

Moore didn't usually play 3 minutes in the first half and then sit the rest of the game. He usually got a 3-4 minute stint in the first half, then the same type of stint in the 2nd. He played double-digit minutes in four of the last 10 games prior to his 20-minute performance Sunday night.

You indicate he's putting up "6 pts, 3 reb, 1 blk per" in his "3-4" minutes per game. His stat line pro-rated for 3 1/2 minutes on the season prior to Sunday would have been 1.71 pts, 1.22 rebs and .37 blks per game, so your fancy statistical analysis may be just a little off. Truth is, Moore had some fun and impressive stretches and he had other stretches where he was invisible and even a little lost (especially early, not near as much now). The kid has developed, and it didn't just happen by osmosis. It's taken a combined effort by Moore along with this coaching staff.
 
RivalsLes said:
Well your argument would simply be wrong.

Moore played about 7-8 minutes a game in his senior year of high school, and came to Wake as a long-term project. He's absolutely worked his tail off, and has advanced significantly since arriving on campus over the summer. He still has endurance issues, but those will get better as coach Horn continues to have him in the strength and conditioning program.

Moore didn't usually play 3 minutes in the first half and then sit the rest of the game. He usually got a 3-4 minute stint in the first half, then the same type of stint in the 2nd. He played double-digit minutes in four of the last 10 games prior to his 20-minute performance Sunday night.

You indicate he's putting up "6 pts, 3 reb, 1 blk per" in his "3-4" minutes per game. His stat line pro-rated for 3 1/2 minutes on the season prior to Sunday would have been 1.71 pts, 1.22 rebs and .37 blks per game, so your fancy statistical analysis may be just a little off. Truth is, Moore had some fun and impressive stretches and he had other stretches where he was invisible and even a little lost (especially early, not near as much now). The kid has developed, and it didn't just happen by osmosis. It's taken a combined effort by Moore along with this coaching staff.
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There is no argument that he hasn't worked his tail off. And he has been a surprise, to say the least. Yes, my fancy stats were why i said ROUGHLY. Which when you look up his avgs, without the previous game, he averages 6 min, 3pt and 2 rebs on the season. Thats decent over a 40 min projection, and i know that is unrealistic. But you are stating that DM can effectively coach big men. And that has not been the case in his 2 years here. Everyone here has seen the burst or whatever from Moore, and have been scratching our heads as to why he doesnt play more minutes. Fatigue is a good answer, but when asked directly about it, DM said "no." Sure he was tired at points in the game yesterday, but to say he cant play 15-20 a night is ridiculous. Hell, just him standing in the paint, makes other teams change their offensive approach. Just look at the Duke game, and Plumlee had a career high or something, while Moore didnt even get in the game. And it seemed like every other play was a layup for a guard. It is confusing, because the team seems to play better with him in the game, (don't have the analytics in my hand, just an observation) but DM refuses to play him more. I also understand that a freshman not knowing what to do in early games is normal, but that doesn't necessarily make him a liability either.

Do you have some fancy statistical analysis of points in the paint when Moore is in the game vs not? I'm curious how big a difference there is, if any.
 
And Odom had planned to redshirt Duncan until Maktar was banned from Wake and Peral had to sit a year.
 
Vegas Jethro said:
T But you are stating that DM can effectively coach big men. And that has not been the case in his 2 years here.
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I've never said "effectively." There are more superlative applicable adjectives, when you look at the development of both Devin Thomas and Doral Moore.

As far as Manning dismissing fatigue, we probably should just state the obvious at this point. . . Manning isn't going to talk to the media or fans about his players' specific shortcomings. He we say general things like the team needs to "guard scouting report better," but he's not going to give us specific issues on specific players. Moore's conditioning is an issue, but it's an issue that's improving and will get better by next season as well.
 
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