Deacon fans not happy...

With Coach Manning. With about 12 minutes to go in the second half Manning takes out Moore after straight up dominating. Anyone notice the loud chorus of boos as Moore was walking to the bench? Moore was also shaking his head before sitting down.

cheeseheads12 said:

With Coach Manning. With about 12 minutes to go in the second half Manning takes out Moore after straight up dominating. Anyone notice the loud chorus of boos as Moore was walking to the bench? Moore was also shaking his head before sitting down.

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I was part of the unhappy fan crowd. Decided last second to go to the game and was greatly disappointed. Fucking outrageous sub patterns, another game where he misused timeouts by not using them, just pathetic. Despite all of that, all we had to do was hit a couple shots and we didn't.

I thought the substitutions were fine. ND was pushing Moore further away from the basket in the second half. With the exception of one block, he also was not as effective protecting the rim. Moore and Collins had good games and were well utilized. There may be some coaching decisions here and there that could have been different but really it came down to making some perimeter shots. More minutes from Moore would not have made much difference. We really needed more offense from the guards.

advancedeac said:

I thought the substitutions were fine. ND was pushing Moore further away from the basket in the second half. With the exception of one block, he also was not as effective protecting the rim. Moore and Collins had good games and were well utilized. There may be some coaching decisions here and there that could have been different but really it came down to making some perimeter shots. More minutes from Moore would not have made much difference. We really needed more offense from the guards.

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You can't be serious. Dinos played the most minutes tonight at 34 :rulz:

cheeseheads12 said:

You can't be serious. Dinos played the most minutes tonight at 34 :rulz:

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No he didn't. When you play 7 guys in a game (minus McClinton's 6 minutes) I am not sure how you develop much of a substitution pattern. DM/JC split 40 as expected. The other 4 starters played 30+ each and Rondale spelled them at different times for 20 minutes. Of course I would rather play DM/JC for more like 60 minutes.

advancedeac said:

I thought the substitutions were fine. ND was pushing Moore further away from the basket in the second half. With the exception of one block, he also was not as effective protecting the rim. Moore and Collins had good games and were well utilized. There may be some coaching decisions here and there that could have been different but really it came down to making some perimeter shots. More minutes from Moore would not have made much difference. We really needed more offense from the guards.

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Not smart. When you shoot the way Wake does, you just might want to play to guys who can score in the paint AT THE SAME TIME.

It does not take a genius to figure this out.

You guys are ridiculous with Manning. The reason we lost is because no one could shoot. Watson 1 for 5 and 1 for 4 at line. CMM 1 for 9 or 10; Wilbekin was like 3 for 10. Dinos about the same. All the layups, tips and wide open looks from outside that went clang, clang, clang all nite long. And, then, of course the best defensive series of the game we block 2 ND shots, tip the ball and it goes to Jackson who passes it for a long 3 right at the shot clock buzzer. Such is Wake Forest basketball. Even when we do the right thing and hustle we still get penalized. We lost because we can't shoot. Period.

Our substitution patterns are bizarre at times but the main reason we lost last night is because we couldn't shoot. 4-24 from the arc will kill you every time. My biggest gripe on the subbing in the 2nd half was sitting Crawford so long. Manning took him out down the stretch and sat him for close to 5 minutes. There was also a timeout during that stretch. There is NO way Crawford needs that much rest, especially when our other guards were playing so horribly.

nvadeac said:

You guys are ridiculous with Manning. The reason we lost is because no one could shoot. Watson 1 for 5 and 1 for 4 at line. CMM 1 for 9 or 10; Wilbekin was like 3 for 10. Dinos about the same. All the layups, tips and wide open looks from outside that went clang, clang, clang all nite long. And, then, of course the best defensive series of the game we block 2 ND shots, tip the ball and it goes to Jackson who passes it for a long 3 right at the shot clock buzzer. Such is Wake Forest basketball. Even when we do the right thing and hustle we still get penalized. We lost because we can't shoot. Period.

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His substitutions are head scratchers, but our biggest problem, well aside from defense of course, is we are a pitiful shooting team. The guys we've got that can shoot a little bit are terribly inconsistent and the rest are just bad shooters. Compare that to a guy like Jackson for ND and it makes a huge difference. I know people keep ragging our recruiting class coming in, but if those guys are good shooters as we've heard, along with the transfer from Charlotte it should help.

Despite keeping it close, we never actually seemed to have a chance at winning. A solid effort overall but when you get awful production from the 2 and 3 spot you aren't beating teams that are decent/good. Really, really hoping that Woods and the incoming freshman can shoot. Combined with Collins, Moore and Brit we should be better

i don't understand his substitution patterns and I didnt actually watch the game but I bet what cheeseheads12 said about the booing is right and I agree with eveyone elese including liveanddiedeac and nvadeac that the shooting was not good. disagree with manning on a lot of things and if we could get better players that would be nice but it makes you wonder why manning is coach at an ACC caliber team. Sad!

I hope the expectations are not too high for Keyshawn, but he hit 41-88 from 3 last year in Division 1 basketball. Dinos is currently 41-122 & he is labeled a good shooter (mainly by the media & not so much by the Wake fans). In comparison Wilbekin is 43-133. Woods should be a massive upgrade in the shooting department and will technically be his 3rd year in college hoops so there should be more expected of him than of Chill or Washington.

deacswin said:

Our substitution patterns are bizarre at times but the main reason we lost last night is because we couldn't shoot. 4-24 from the arc will kill you every time. My biggest gripe on the subbing in the 2nd half was sitting Crawford so long. Manning took him out down the stretch and sat him for close to 5 minutes. There was also a timeout during that stretch. There is NO way Crawford needs that much rest, especially when our other guards were playing so horribly.

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This. I didn't mind the back and forth with Moore and Collins - they both did good things and different things and they both did dumb freshman things. The major minutes are good for both of them.
But I could not believe how long Crawford was out and Watson was in - I figured Crawford must have done something to piss Danny off but I don't know what.
And good lord what has happened to Dinos? His corner 3 used to be automatic! Now it looks like he is lucky to hit the rim!
Even when we get "easy" 12 foot jumpers in the lane, we can't make them. What I would give for a Songaila-type player who can make a 10-15 foot jump shot with regularity. Collins shows promise but he ain't there yet.

WF outrebounded ND; had more assists and fewer turnovers. WF also defended ND well holding them to 44% from the field and 22% from 3. WF just shot horrendously from the field (against a bad defensive team). WF shot a horrible 39% from 2, and an even worse 17% from 3... oh yeah, to round out the pathetic shooting performance WF shot 59% 10 for 17 from the line. WF's offensive efficiency for the game was .87 points per possession -- only the Syracuse game was worse offensively for the season. Got to make open shots.

Also, Crawford did play 33 minutes last night (he contributed to the pathetic shooting performance going 0 for 6 from three). Maybe, he was rested at the wrong time, but it's not like BC was buried on the bench.

Pilchard said:

WF outrebounded ND; had more assists and fewer turnovers. WF also defended ND well holding them to 44% from the field and 22% from 3. WF just shot horrendously from the field (against a bad defensive team). WF shot a horrible 39% from 2, and an even worse 17% from 3... oh yeah, to round out the pathetic shooting performance WF shot 59% 10 for 17 from the line. WF's offensive efficiency for the game was .87 points per possession -- only the Syracuse game was worse offensively for the season. Got to make open shots.

Also, Crawford did play 33 minutes last night. Maybe, he was rested at the wrong time, but it's not like BC was buried on the bench.

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Not a good 2nd half though, I think they were 38 percent at halftime, so they shot much better in the 2nd half.

liveanddiedeac said:

Not a good 2nd half though, I think they were 38 percent at halftime, so they shot much better in the 2nd half.

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ND shot 48% from the field and 33% from 3 in the 2nd half. Better than the first half, but worse than their season averages. ND did do major damage from the foul line the 2nd half: 17-20 85%. WF is incapable of putting a team away from the line. ND is.

We held the nations most efficient offense to 69 points. That should have been enough for a win if we had shot the ball worth a damn.

It was their worst adjusted efficiency game offensively of the year.

We held a good ND team under 70 points. That is good enough to win. The shooting was as bad as it can possibly get, other than Collins and Big D in the paint. Abysmal doesn't even do it justice. We really need to hope Woods is as good of a shooter as advertised. I'm pretty happy with BC, Woods, Collins and Moore as the core of our team for the next three years. BC, Collins and Moore are playing awfully well for freshmen.

Agree, defense wasn't the thing that really cost us last night, poor shooting did us in.

How we could have won the game: Simple, put Collins and Moore in together in the last 2-4 minutes. There were 2 TOs at those minute marks. Subs were made....but NO MOORE RETURNED TO THE GAME. Even though Auguste was having his way inside against Collins (size) and Dinos (overall defensive ineptitude....and as noted by many others, inept in every other phase of the game, again....shooting, D, etc....although his rebounding was slightly better.... he got more than his usual 2 or 3), Manning refused, once again, to insert Moore who was great at bothering the middle all-night. Yes, Auguste scored a couple of times on good moves around Moore. But I'd take a double team by Moore and Collins any day over one by Dinos and Collins....(did you notice that Auguste scored at least once in the last 2 minutes with that double-team and was fouled another 2 times and hit 4 FTs.

What is wrong with Danny? Cannot he not see the "Forest" for the trees? The game was certainly reasonably within reach, a 3-5 point game in that 2-4 minute time span, yet we leave in our 3 guys all under 6'4"...Mitchel, Cody, and Crawford/Watson and keep our top 2 scorers from playing together. Foul trouble was a moot point, both in number of PFs each of them had and in the amount of time left in the game. What is there to lose in trying it? And this when N.D. put in both their bigs near the end to play together....this was the reason our little lineup (Cody and Watson) got stuffed inside on drives and I think Mitchell threw one away).

If you were there and heard someone yelling at Manning to put Moore in with Collins near the end, that was me.