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Conference Expansion: Stanford, California and SMU Join the ACC

State fans have forever overestimated their place in the college sports world. No one outside of NC cares about them, except for their alumni (who are mostly in NC). They may have once been a national brand in basketball but that was several generations ago.

Maybe we don't need to lament not having them as a football partner. After the ACC is picked clean, they will be left with us.
 
JKW385 said:
Sadly - this is exactly right and we heard the same crap in 2006-2008. I love us winning 10 games but for sake of the conference survival - we are better off being 7-5 every year and having FSU and Clemson being top 10 and Miami, UVA, UNC being top 20, and State and VT being top 25-ish. Guarantee you if that had been the case last 5 years - none of this MegaBullshit would be happening. What’s really screwed the conference perception is VT, Miami, and FSU falling behind- especially Miami. Since the beginning of the divisions, Duke has won Coastal as many times as Miami and LOWF has won the Atlantic twice. That shouldn’t happen given the talent and tradition of the U. Instead of giving little schools credit, pundits take that that the conference is garbage. It’s a joke.
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It doesn’t seem to hurt the Big 10 when Northwestern is beating up on gigantic state schools.
 
deacdixieboy said:
It doesn’t seem to hurt the Big 10 when Northwestern is beating up on gigantic state schools.
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I have never understood the fascination with Big 10 football. All of the teams are boring. Except for OSU they have been irrelevant nationally. And OSU only does it by cheating.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
I think the doomsday scenarios around Wake Football are exaggerated - the main losses I’m concerned with are breaking up the Big 4 and how the loss of conference television money would hurt our entire athletics program. Wake was never a national program with title game aspirations, and we never recruited that caliber of player, so I don’t see how the ACC becoming a tier 2 conference changes much for us. Are we that much better off getting our asses kicked by FSU on ESPN 2 with no one watching on cable vs playing a competitive game against ECU with no one watching the ESPN+ stream on their smart tv?
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I suspect Dave Clawson disagrees with the part in bold.
 
Here is some hope. The Phillips hire was lauded across the country. He's quiet right now. Lay down or fight. Pretty sure he's smarter than Swofford who signed the worst TV deal of all time. Quiet is good right now. Don't speak until you got the ability to drop a bomb. So I remain today as hopeful.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
I think the doomsday scenarios around Wake Football are exaggerated - the main losses I’m concerned with are breaking up the Big 4 and how the loss of conference television money would hurt our entire athletics program. Wake was never a national program with title game aspirations, and we never recruited that caliber of player, so I don’t see how the ACC becoming a tier 2 conference changes much for us. Are we that much better off getting our asses kicked by FSU on ESPN 2 with no one watching on cable vs playing a competitive game against ECU with no one watching the ESPN+ stream on their smart tv?
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Are you a national program when you finish in the top 25 and are in the top 25 pre season? What are the rules to be a national program?
 
ironwill24 said:
A fellow Deacon lawyer buddy of mine's firm drafted the GOR and he says it's absolutely airtight and the ACC would basically own a school that left. Might make financial sense in five years but didn't see ACC splitting up this year. That being said we're on life support until then without coming up with a sliding scale for revenue share or doing the unthinkable and getting ND to join.
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There’s no mystery as to what these contracts do or don’t say. They are linked right off the Athletics article this morning among other places.

It’s a very well drafted contract. The problem is, like the LIV problem, they just have so much more money that it really doesn’t matter. They don’t need Clemsons media rights until 2035 anyway.
 
macktheknife said:
Are you a national program when you finish in the top 25 and are in the top 25 pre season? What are the rules to be a national program?
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Seriously. That’s disrespectful to Clawson and the team and what they’ve accomplished.
 
donaldross said:
There’s no mystery as to what these contracts do or don’t say. They are linked right off the Athletics article this morning among other places.

It’s a very well drafted contract. The problem is, like the LIV problem, they just have so much more money that it really doesn’t matter. They don’t need Clemsons media rights until 2035 anyway.
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Correct.
 
awakegirl said:
Seriously. That’s disrespectful to Clawson and the team and what they’ve accomplished.
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You all are really suffering from recency bias. Last season was fun, but it doesn’t change who we are. There are hundreds of college football programs in the country and like 15 of them have any chance of winning the championship, it’s still a worthwhile sport and worth the time and money for the rest of them.
 
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I remember when we used to be reassured by the fact that the ACC would not and could not kick out Wake. We were right! :/
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
You all are really suffering from recency bias. Last season was fun, but it doesn’t change who we are. There are hundreds of college football programs in the country and like 15 of them have any chance of winning the championship, it’s still a worthwhile sport and worth the time and money for the rest of them.
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Well then what’s a national program? Are there 10? We’ve consistently played in and won bowl games against “major” programs since Grobe came in 20 years ago with some down years here and there. Are we Ohio State? Of course not, but we’re not playing the equivalent of D2 football like some people are acting like. There’s a big gap between where we are and where we could be when this all plays out. Acting like we weren’t ever that good, so who cares just isn’t accurate in my mind. Right now, I can watch every game we play in here in the NE on any given Saturday. Also, since pre-Grobe, we have been able to get recruits with a ton of potential to take a chance on us because of who we play. The chance to play Clemson and FSU means a lot. If this all goes the way it seems, that will all be gone.
 
15-20 years ago- yes reasons we could get better players to come here was chance to play against Clemson, FSU, Miami, etc. I guarantee we never get Fresh Deacs, Pahokee boys 2.0 in 2009, Kevin Johnson, Nease kids, Josh Harris, Chris Givens, Kyle Wilbur, etc. without that. However, we are now in the facilities arms race and NIL era so it’s a new ballgame. Our facilities are some of the best in the country and we have enough wealthy boosters that I’m sure we’ll figure out how to make NIL work. W-S is also a much more happening metro than it was in early 2000’s. Would we have a bigger ceiling in Charlotte? Of course we would but that logistically can’t happen.
 
Deacfreak07 said:
I do think the cap on expansion is when rivalries begin to erode. Maybe the Fox and ESPN conferences just have a bunch of teams with only one rival and it won’t be a big deal I guess?
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Begin to erode? They’ve been eroding for decades. OU-Neb, Pitt-WVU, Texas-A&M, and we witnessed the ACC chop away our rivalry with State this week.


ironwill24 said:
A fellow Deacon lawyer buddy of mine's firm drafted the GOR and he says it's absolutely airtight and the ACC would basically own a school that left. Might make financial sense in five years but didn't see ACC splitting up this year. That being said we're on life support until then without coming up with a sliding scale for revenue share or doing the unthinkable and getting ND to join.
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What is airtight nowadays? Contracts just seem like speedbumps for lawyers and $$$.

Seems like Clemson and whoever could leave and sue the ACC and move it through the courts until SCOTUS issues a ruling voiding the grant of rights. Just give it a few years.
 
donaldross said:
There’s no mystery as to what these contracts do or don’t say. They are linked right off the Athletics article this morning among other places.

It’s a very well drafted contract. The problem is, like the LIV problem, they just have so much more money that it really doesn’t matter. They don’t need Clemsons media rights until 2035 anyway.
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Even in the circles being discussed, $500 million is real money. Any team leaving the ACC pror to the conclusion of the Grant of Rights agreement would forfeit all ACC media disbursements and would owe the ACC any money earned from broadcasts of games through the expiration date of the GoR.
 
PhDeac said:
Begin to erode? They’ve been eroding for decades. OU-Neb, Pitt-WVU, Texas-A&M, and we witnessed the ACC chop away our rivalry with State this week.




What is airtight nowadays? Contracts just seem like speedbumps for lawyers and $$$.

Seems like Clemson and whoever could leave and sue the ACC and move it through the courts until SCOTUS issues a ruling voiding the grant of rights. Just give it a few years.
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There is a reason USC/UCLA are joining the Big Ten in 2024 not 2023 and why we've still not gotten a firm date on OU/Texas joining the SEC.

OU, a huge brand, financially can't until 2024 unless someone bails they out because of the exit fee.

No one wants their media rights for home games stripped for countless years, and from the looks of it, there's no way around it. Pretty much every single person that's been reporting on the GOR have said how airtight the contract is and how teams have been looking at it for years and still haven't been able to find ways out of it
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
You all are really suffering from recency bias. Last season was fun, but it doesn’t change who we are. There are hundreds of college football programs in the country and like 15 of them have any chance of winning the championship, it’s still a worthwhile sport and worth the time and money for the rest of them.
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Miami? I laugh. UNC ? Laugh. Recency bias in sports is not bias. It's what the fuck you did.
 
awakegirl said:
Well then what’s a national program? Are there 10? We’ve consistently played in and won bowl games against “major” programs since Grobe came in 20 years ago with some down years here and there. Are we Ohio State? Of course not, but we’re not playing the equivalent of D2 football like some people are acting like. There’s a big gap between where we are and where we could be when this all plays out. Acting like we weren’t ever that good, so who cares just isn’t accurate in my mind. Right now, I can watch every game we play in here in the NE on any given Saturday. Also, since pre-Grobe, we have been able to get recruits with a ton of potential to take a chance on us because of who we play. The chance to play Clemson and FSU means a lot. If this all goes the way it seems, that will all be gone.
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We are in between Ohio State and D2 now, and that wouldn’t change if we were left out of a major conference re-alignment. I think Wake Forest football will be just fine without playing in the same conference as Clemson and FSU. If we get a lower caliber of recruit, so be it. All the other teams we will be playing will also get a lower caliber of recruit. IMO the trade off of increased parity between us and our competition would be worth us not sharing a major conference with 3 other teams who could make the playoff.
 
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