I don’t think Duke wants the SEC either- Way too elitist to want to be in that conference if Big10 is extending invites. NC State on the other hand would given an appendage to be in the SEC as would VT. Wake, GT, BC, Cuse are gonna be left out of musical chairs this round- what do people think about Pitt and LVille? Would they make sense in either conference? I think SEC for LVille and Pitt for Big 10 but again, Big Ten already has a flag in PAOriginally Posted by thatguy2016
I still think Duke & Carolina might stick together and sell themselves as a package deal, that rivalry is integral to both athletics programs.
Draxx them sklounst
You seem to be pretending this discussion doesn’t center around how much media company execs decide to pay college presidents for the rights to broadcast games.
I haven’t seen any discussion about whether or not these Super Leagues will break off from the NCAA and have a new model of student-athlete that includes revenue or an enhanced form of NIL.
Sucks to realize this, but every school in the conference except Wake can make at least a credible case for membership in the Big Two. Duke has hoops, their brand, UNC rivalry, and academic prestige. GT has the Atlanta market. BC has Boston market. Louisville has cash. Pitt is a geographic fit for the B10 and has tons of alumni. Obviously they're not all getting in but we're the only one who isn't even in the conversation. Tough times.
Don’t disagree with you that we’re worst draw either- but for this round of Alignment - I think Cuse, BC, and GT get left out. SEC already owns Atlanta market, and if there are 20 spots in each super conference - That means there are 8 spots left and that’s not including ND, Washington, Oregon, Cal, Stanford. Not enough chairs for everyone right now unless they start cutting schools. This doesn’t mean they can’t still get in 5 years from now but I think for time being - we won’t be only ones staying home from Senior Prom. What do we need to do to make cut next time? Think we gotta merge with Elon or High Point. Davidson would be my first choice but I don’t think they need us.
Also sucks that none of this is merit-based. We punch above our weight all over the place. Wake would be a competitive addition to either conference in many if not most sports. However, we could be ranked in football, basketball, baseball, soccer, tennis, etc. and we wouldn't get a second look thanks to our small alumni base and small (and competitive) media market.
Agreed. It’s all about money, brand, and markets. I know football has punched above its weight for 20 years but sadly - gonna take a decade of winning - 9-11 games to change perception since we have historically been one of worst programs in FBS. We can do all we want in stadium upgrades, facilities, NIL, etc. but reality is we are never gonna fill up even a 60,000 stadium - it’s gonna be a nice story and that’s it for majority of college world- not attractive for Mega Conferences unless we have ND or Miami level tradition as a small school.
We have a ceiling in football that I would argue we have hit and I’m fine with that. What’s really killed us as a brand in my opinion has been the disaster that’s been men’s basketball last 10+ years. I would argue we were a more attractive brand for expansion in 2003-2004 than now because of the drop off in men’s basketball. When you talk to people nationally- they associate WF with a historically good basketball program given the guys we’ve put in the pro’s. We had a chance in 2003-2005 to take our program to the next level with a once in a generation player for us in CP3 and we didn’t seize the moment. Since then, save a few weeks in 2008-2009 and 2017, we’ve been a dumpster fire of a program. Had we capitalized in early 2000’s, we have become a bigger national brand and on the right side of this mega conference talks.
... for now they do.
Anybody venture a guess when this all shakes out given the GOR?
Hoping Phillips can pull a rabbit out of the hat to keep all ND sports, plus football now, in the ACC to save our hides.
Navy and ND to the ACC??
If I was a betting man, I would say by start of 2022 football season - I don’t see it happening in next weekAnybody venture a guess when this all shakes out given the GOR?
Hoping Phillips can pull a rabbit out of the hat to keep all ND sports, plus football now, in the ACC to save our hides.
Navy and ND to the ACC??
Absolutely agree with the above.
Also agree that the last ten years of men's bball have done irreparable damage to our rep. Unforgivable.
I would put the chances of ND joining the ACC in FB at one percent or less. I mean, it has to be a foregone conclusion that they're moving to the B10, right? Anything else is basically malpractice on the part of their admin. There's no getting around the math. Would be willing to bet the decision's already been made and it's just a matter of prepping behind the scenes at this point. The only alternative scenario that seems plausible is that the GOR holds for another minute, the ACC manages to scoop up some combination of sexy PAC12 and B12 schools, and we renegotiate the TV rights. And I'm pretty sure even that wouldn't do it.
Notre Dame is as good as gone and Navy does nothing.Anybody venture a guess when this all shakes out given the GOR?
Hoping Phillips can pull a rabbit out of the hat to keep all ND sports, plus football now, in the ACC to save our hides.
Navy and ND to the ACC??
The only “big move” left to play is to try to land some of the best leftovers from PAC 10 and Big XII. I doubt that works but is worth looking into.
it’s Big 10 or stay independent- CFP doesn’t expire until 2024 I believe? What a coincidence - that lines up with UCLA, USC, Texas, OU join the Big 2. ND has 2 more years of mercenary status and they still have path to CFP- I bet they slowplay it to lever the deal up in 2024
I totally agree that we’re the least desirable, but I think people are way overestimating Duke. Their own fanbase doesn’t think they’ll be picked up. Basketball means nothing in this equation and very little outside of a certain area. This is why no one is jumping on Kansas, who makes a better overall argument for inclusion than Duke, whose football program is horrific and facilities are lacking, not to mention being a relatively small private school. Duke is stuck in the same bucket as us.
Then you haven't been reading the right things. There has been plenty of discussion that the NCAA is going to be defunct for football and possibly for basketball as well.
You were really, really wrong on your NIL prediction ("Watch the worst thing that happens from this be that some female track and field athlete makes money off her TikTok.") and you're really, really wrong here on NIL's impact on conferences.
TITCR
We could’ve had a combination of Gonzaga and Villanova’s record in basketball over the last decade and it wouldn’t mean shit. We’d be in the exact same situation.
Average per game viewership 2021 season. 110 schools ranked. Here are the numbers for ACC. Regular season only.
ND-9
Clem-19
FSU-25
Miami-35
UNC-36
Louisville-50
UVA-51
Pitt-53
WFU-55
NCSU-56
GT-61
VT-62
Cuse-77
BC-83
Duke-96
Laugh at NCSU boys.
Who are the best of the rest? Let’s assume Oregon, Washington, and ND are in big 10. Let’s all assume we have no defections for now. I would say in this order:
Big 12- Baylor, Kansas, WVU, Texas Tech, TCU, OK State, Iowa State, KState
PAC 12- Arizona, Stanford, Cal, Colorado, Arizona State, Utah, Washington State, Oregon State
Sadly, I don’t think ACC has clout to get PAC 12 teams unless we can offer a package deal say to Stanford/Cal and Arizona/Arizona Stare to both come in that the Big 2 won’t.
So let’s focus on Big 12- WVU logistically makes most sense given their history with VT and Pitt but they aren’t exactly a national brand save a few years from the RichRod teams. Kansas would be a bone to keep Duke/UNC and Baylor would be a nice addition - it’s just a bigger WF with lesser academics.
I don’t think it’s that Duke itself has that much more appeal than us - it’s more that they have a rival 8 miles away that is on paper - most attractive team in the ACC not named Clemson for Big 2. They are more attractive than FSU or Miami at the moment in my opinion- not if those programs are back to early 2000’s form. UNC is gonna look out for Duke, State, and LOWF in that order
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