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UNC Begs, er, responds to NCAA allegations

tau06 said:
But wasn't all the Penn State stuff outside of the NCAA's jurisdiction as well? And they had no problem dropping the hammer (rightly) on them.
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Yep, I know. Imagine Penn State trying to use this defense in that situation.
 
Hasn't the NCAA levied penalties for other academic issues such as cheating on a test or plagiarism? Odd that the jurisdiction line was moved back now for UNC.

If the NCAA isn't in academics, then why have minimum GPA's to retain athletic eligibility and minimum standards for admission to the school?

And then after forgoing jurisdiction in regard to academics, the NCAA passes a vague ("we know it when we see it") rule about academics.

Seems pretty open and shut that if it were not for these sham classes (this is not in dispute), UNC athletes maintained eligibility they would not otherwise have. Simply remove the sham classes from their GPA calculation and determine if UNC played with ineligible players, and punish accordingly.

I guess with the Olympics starting this week they wanted to go their own mental gymnastics.
 
5 years ago this month:

http://www.knightcommission.org/recent-news/638-august-15-2011-uncs-friday-scores-with-ncaa-rule

Last week, some ideas championed for years by former UNC System President William Friday were implemented by the NCAA.

As college sports increasingly became a big business driven by TV, and coaches' salaries escalated, Friday often warned of a dangerous shift away from the academic mission of the universities.

The events of last week left Friday hopeful that the pendulum is swinging back toward academics. On Tuesday and Wednesday, more than 50 university presidents met with NCAA President Mark Emmert in a historic gathering to discuss the future of college athletics.

On Thursday, the Division I Board of Directors announced the approval of a rule that the Knight Commission on Intercollegiate Athletics - of which Friday was a founding member - proposed 10 years ago.

The rule bans teams with four-year NCAA Academic Progress Rate marks below 930 from postseason play. In essence, that means 50 percent of the players in a program have to be on track to graduate in order for a team to play in a bowl or an NCAA tournament.

Friday, the 91-year-old champion of reform, was pleased.

"This is a pivotal point," he said. "If you really mean these people are student-athletes, then you have to emphasize that particular point. This is the first major turning in the road."
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Did Wellman show unc the blueprint to come away clean?

UNC admits to doing it. (ronnnie admits wins aren't where we want them)
UNC blames one advisor and dept head (ronnie blames dino and bad fans for not understanding the process takes time)
UNC says its not under your jurisdiction (ron ignores obvious, attacks bad fans and strokes the egos of the big money men who "have jurisdiction")

ron wellman's blue print for escaping accountability 401. looks like unc administrators actually showed up for that class.


seriously though, how can the ncaa sit back and take it? this is a direct shot across the bow. i guess the question for them now is 1 - respond with a great big death penalty for messing with them (risk unc going to court and winning). 2 - turn over like a good dog, unc rubs their belly, and the rest of the ncaa members are up in arms and leave. either way could have huge repercussions for the ncaa's long term viability. not like there aren't questions or threats to it already.


on the other hand does this admission force the academic accrediting body to come back and revisit? they let them off the hook and then unc comes out and all but admits what it did by telling the ncaa you can't touch us. that's an academic integrity slap to the face. every kid that took one of those classes forced to come back and take a few more credit hours to make their degree legit? state legislature steps in?

this is an amazing case and probably the one potential response from unc i had never considered.
 
tau06 said:
But wasn't all the Penn State stuff outside of the NCAA's jurisdiction as well? And they had no problem dropping the hammer (rightly) on them.
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liveanddiedeac said:
Yep, I know. Imagine Penn State trying to use this defense in that situation.
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but didn't they? and weren't the penalties lessened?

"so much corruption in the ncaa it's hard being mark emm e r t."
 
Looks like the punishment for this has come and gone; one year of probation from SACS that ran from June 2015-2016. The trick was to include non-athletes in the scam.
 
aocs3281 said:
Looks like the punishment for this has come and gone; one year of probation from SACS that ran from June 2015-2016. The trick was to include non-athletes in the scam.
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Thing is, I doubt that they were even clever enough to do that. Sounds like some frat bros accidentally found their ways into the classes, and then started telling all their future bros about it. Department couldn't exactly tell them 'no' and get exposed, so non-athletes were able to take advantage of the cheating too.
 
awaken said:
................

If the NCAA isn't in academics, then why have minimum GPA's to retain athletic eligibility and minimum standards for admission to the school?

And then after forgoing jurisdiction in regard to academics, the NCAA passes a vague ("we know it when we see it") rule about academics.

Seems pretty open and shut that if it were not for these sham classes (this is not in dispute), UNC athletes maintained eligibility they would not otherwise have. Simply remove the sham classes from their GPA calculation and determine if UNC played with ineligible players, and punish accordingly. ..........
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The case in a nut-shell.
 
RaleighTriad said:
If they skate, then everyone will simply adopt their blue print for cheating. Brilliant move to challenge the NCAA.
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Assuming UNC sets this new standard, should Wake get a sham degree program of their our on?. Duke already has athletes taking classes at NC Central. Wake could work out a program with WSSU or create a small new 'degree' program (e.g. nutrition or social media advertising) where they hand out A's for a single term paper and allow non athletes to participate. The accreditation agencies don't seem to care (see UNC) and if a regular student is dumb enough to pay for a degree (or an athlete is dumb enough to waste a free education) on a program with little hopes of getting a job - that is on them.

I know Wake would have to be pulled kicking and screaming into a sham degree model, but if the UNC standard is upheld by the NCAA, the gulf between the haves and the have nots (like LOWF) is only going to get bigger.
 
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91deac said:
Assuming UNC sets this new standard, should Wake get a sham degree program of their our on?. Duke already has athletes taking classes at NC Central. Wake could work out a program with WSSU or create a small new 'degree' program (e.g. nutrition or social media advertising) where they hand out A's for a single term paper and allow non athletes to participate. The accreditation agencies don't seem to care (see UNC) and if a regular student is dumb enough to pay for a degree (or an athlete is dumb enough to waste a free education) on a program with little hopes of getting a job - that is on them.

I know Wake would have to be pulled kicking and screaming into a sham degree model, but if the UNC standard is upheld by the NCAA, the gulf between the haves and the have nots (like LOWF) is only going to get bigger.
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Hatch and Wellman are men of culture and wouldn't lower themselves to such.
 
wakephan09 said:
Thing is, I doubt that they were even clever enough to do that. Sounds like some frat bros accidentally found their ways into the classes, and then started telling all their future bros about it. Department couldn't exactly tell them 'no' and get exposed, so non-athletes were able to take advantage of the cheating too.
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I think it was all done intentionally...to boost the GPAs of non-athletes too.
 
wakephan09 said:
Thing is, I doubt that they were even clever enough to do that. Sounds like some frat bros accidentally found their ways into the classes, and then started telling all their future bros about it. Department couldn't exactly tell them 'no' and get exposed, so non-athletes were able to take advantage of the cheating too.
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Oh they absolutely were. This shit started back in the 80s with Dean and was perfected by the school and Roy. See the time line for when Roy brought in his "academic advisor" from Kansas and when all of the basketball players started getting funneled to the AFAM sham program.
 
I have posted this before but I'll say it again - I knew a girl who played softball at UNC and we were talking about this 4 years ago. She said her academic advisor put her in Prof. Nyang’oro's class without asking her, and she ended up dropping it because she could not understand him. She said in retrospect, her advisor was trying to get her into an easy A class, or maybe the advisor thought the basketball team needed some company or something. But she didn't really understand what was going on at the time.
 
When you start blatantly cheating like this, you aren't going to think about ways of getting out of trouble some day. They never thought they'd be caught. Or they had convinced themselves that what they were doing wasn't wrong. I can't imagine they were smart enough to start admitting regular students just so their hypothetical punishment someday in the future would be mitigated.

99% of faculty in US colleges and universities would never get on board with something like this. Dean and the athletic department probably worked all of this out on their own with the corrupt professor and his AA. American academics take their jobs (and the ethical execution of their duties as teachers and researchers) very, very seriously.
 
But doesn't someone higher up in the academic department have to approve courses before they can be offered? That's got to be the job of at least someone in the bloated administration offices.
 
deaconson said:
but didn't they? and weren't the penalties lessened?

"so much corruption in the ncaa it's hard being mark emm e r t."
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The NCAA and PSU settled and the penalties were reduced. Ostensibly, the NCAA reduced the penalties due to the Mitchell Report. In reality, the NCAA had overstepped its bounds and knew it. They were going to lose in court, so they proposed the settlement which PSU accepted.
 
I'd love to see the percentage of athletes that took one of these classes compared to the student body at large.
 
DeaconCav06 said:
I'd love to see the percentage of athletes that took one of these classes compared to the student body at large.
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Exactly. There are always "friends of jocks" who get the tip and join these classes, too. Does not make the classes legit.
 
I also assume that the athletes have priority enrollment in these classes so it would be interesting to see the enrollment percentages university wide of athletes and non athletes.
 
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