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Hillbilly Elegy: A Memoir of a Family and a Culture in Crisis by J.D. Vance

TripleDeacon said:
Anybody read this book? I came across this interview with the author from a friend's post on Facebook and I'm intrigued:

Trump: Tribune Of Poor White People

Discusses Trump's appeal to poor, working class, rural white folks.
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I read it. Really liked it. He's no Cormac McCarthy, but it is an interesting story.

Edited to add one of my favorite quotes, which I totally related to:

"That’s what Scots-Irish Appalachians do when people mess with your kid. 'What I mean is that they were united, they were getting along with each other,' Uncle Jimmy conceded when I later pressed him. 'But yeah, like everyone else in our family, they could go from zero to murderous in a fucking heartbeat.'"
 
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I read that interview last week. It was an interesting read. His discussion of culture is good, but he contorts himself within his discussion of structural and cultural problems and individual responsibilities. The two questions I had were:

1. The author leads with this statement:
J.D. VANCE: The simple answer is that these people–my people–are really struggling, and there hasn’t been a single political candidate who speaks to those struggles in a long time. Donald Trump at least tries.
What many don’t understand is how truly desperate these places are, and we’re not talking about small enclaves or a few towns–we’re talking about multiple states where a significant chunk of the white working class struggles to get by. Heroin addiction is rampant. In my medium-sized Ohio county last year, deaths from drug addiction outnumbered deaths from natural causes. The average kid will live in multiple homes over the course of her life, experience a constant cycle of growing close to a “stepdad” only to see him walk out on the family, know multiple drug users personally, maybe live in a foster home for a bit (or at least in the home of an unofficial foster like an aunt or grandparent), watch friends and family get arrested, and on and on. And on top of that is the economic struggle, from the factories shuttering their doors to the Main Streets with nothing but cash-for-gold stores and pawn shops.
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But how has Trump addressed those issues specifically? Has he suggested any solutions? He speaks to a base anger, but it's a leap to say Trump truly speaks to their struggles.

2. The author mentions Obama's famous line from the 2008 election in this passage:

What does it mean for our politics? To me, this condescension is a big part of Trump’s appeal. He’s the one politician who actively fights elite sensibilities, whether they’re good or bad. I remember when Hillary Clinton casually talked about putting coal miners out of work, or when Obama years ago discussed working class whites clinging to their guns and religion. Each time someone talks like this, I’m reminded of Mamaw’s feeling that hillbillies are the one group you don’t have to be ashamed to look down upon. The people back home carry that condescension like a badge of honor, but it also hurts, and they’ve been looking for someone for a while who will declare war on the condescenders. If nothing else, Trump does that.
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But wasn't Obama right? Over the last eight years working class white people have clung to guns and religion. They've maintained a steadfast belief that Obama is trying to take their guns and he's a closet Muslim.
 
ImTheCaptain said:
now that's how you ad that hominem, folks
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Ha! No, that wasn't directed at PH if that's what you meant. Regardless of whether Mr. President is/was right regarding their "clinging to their guns and religion", that was certainly a condescending remark, particularly in the context of the quote.
 
TripleDeacon said:
Ha! No, that wasn't directed at PH if that's what you meant. Regardless of whether Mr. President is/was right regarding their "clinging to their guns and religion", that was certainly a condescending remark, particularly in the context of the quote.
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ah yes; this is true
 
TripleDeacon said:
Ha! No, that wasn't directed at PH if that's what you meant. Regardless of whether Mr. President is/was right regarding their "clinging to their guns and religion", that was certainly a condescending remark, particularly in the context of the quote.
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Agreed. It was condescending but prophetic.
 
This guy will be on All In with Chris Hayes on msnbc tonight at 8.
 
I just started reading the book and one of the early passages talks of how young whites no matter their economic status in these counties in eastern Ohio have become immune to hard work. Vance talks of working in a tile factory (one of few good places to work that is fairly recession resistant) and a manager hiring both a guy and the girl he got pregnant. Both were horrible employees missing work w/o calling in and taking long bathroom breaks. They both were being paid $13 an hour to start and could get to $16 an hour after a few months (this is well above the poverty scale in his area). However since both were bad employees they were shit canned. The guy complains that he has a pregnant wife to support, but the manager is like "you have to at least work while you are here".

Vance's explanation is that the basic fibers of family have been destroyed over the years of losses of jobs due to manufacturing jobs being lost as well as wages. I agree but this has been happening everywhere. A lot of the companies I call on down here in SC simply cannot find good employees to work in the auto plants (pay begins around $12-$15 an hour which is a good wage if you don't go to college) that either don't do drugs or don't have a rap sheet.
 
I see similar complaints among manufacturers in the Tampa Bay area as well.
 
DeacWatcher said:
I just started reading the book and one of the early passages talks of how young whites no matter their economic status in these counties in eastern Ohio have become immune to hard work. Vance talks of working in a tile factory (one of few good places to work that is fairly recession resistant) and a manager hiring both a guy and the girl he got pregnant. Both were horrible employees missing work w/o calling in and taking long bathroom breaks. They both were being paid $13 an hour to start and could get to $16 an hour after a few months (this is well above the poverty scale in his area). However since both were bad employees they were shit canned. The guy complains that he has a pregnant wife to support, but the manager is like "you have to at least work while you are here".

Vance's explanation is that the basic fibers of family have been destroyed over the years of losses of jobs due to manufacturing jobs being lost as well as wages. I agree but this has been happening everywhere. A lot of the companies I call on down here in SC simply cannot find good employees to work in the auto plants (pay begins around $12-$15 an hour which is a good wage if you don't go to college) that either don't do drugs or don't have a rap sheet.
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I think the problem is that people have gotten wise to the lack of upward mobility, which takes away their motivation. A lot of young people from families without the means to send them to college know they're doomed in this economy without a degree. So they just drift along from one dead end job to another, doing their best to make ends' meet on a day to day basis. It's not hard to see why Trump appeals to people in that situation.

Haven't read Vance's book but I might. A lot of people with his background don't speak out about it because of a sense of shame and not wanting to be exposed as somebody other than who their bank account/Ivy league diploma/Wall Street job suggests they are.
 
This seems accurate. but it was perhaps most conspicuous in North Carolina, where many whites who had been denied land in Virginia trickled into the area south of the Great Dismal Swamp, establishing what Isenberg calls “the first white trash colony.”
 
inspectah said:
I think the problem is that people have gotten wise to the lack of upward mobility, which takes away their motivation. A lot of young people from families without the means to send them to college know they're doomed in this economy without a degree. So they just drift along from one dead end job to another, doing their best to make ends' meet on a day to day basis. It's not hard to see why Trump appeals to people in that situation.

Haven't read Vance's book but I might. A lot of people with his background don't speak out about it because of a sense of shame and not wanting to be exposed as somebody other than who their bank account/Ivy league diploma/Wall Street job suggests they are.
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Even if you know you are no going to college, there are ways to be successful instead of just giving up or figuring you are going to work in a warehouse or convenience store the rest of your life. Many of the guy I went to HS with came out of mill villages and made something for themselves. There is no shame in learning a trade and eventually going on to own your own contractors business as an electrician, plumber, or welder. Lots of these guys make big bank.

I know as I get deeper in the book that Vance will talk more about the break down of the family unit as the ultimate cause of this harsh cycle.
 
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