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Dave Clawson Credibility Watch

bobknightfan said:
Life is much more stressful when one chooses to ignore reality and live in a fantasy world.

Tell ya what. I'll send you $100 free of charge the next time WF has three straight winning seasons in football while playing in the ACC.
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When faced with facts all you do is deflect. The 85 scholarship rule alone changed football dramatically. Appalachian proved it just the other night. TV advantages of big state schools made recruiting damn near impossible. I think we were on TV of any kind once in my four years at Wake. I'm not stressed. You're just dumb. I've pointed this out to you countless times. Your head is like a cement block. Nobody gives a shit what our record was in 1960 when we were at a huge competitive disadvantage.
 
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macktheknife said:
When faced with facts all you do is deflect. The 85 scholarship rule alone changed football dramatically. Appalachian proved it just the other night. TV advantages of big state schools made recruiting damn near impossible. I think we were on TV of any kind once in my four years at Wake. I'm not stressed. Your just dumb. I've pointed this out to you countless times. Your head is like a cement block. Nobody gives a shit what our record was in 1960 we were at a huge competitive disadvantage.
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I understand the points you are making. It's just that they are not nearly enough to overcome all the disadvantages that remain for a school like WF to compete in football in today's P-5 conferences. What are some of those disadvantages? First & foremost, very few players who are likely to be good enough to help WF in football at the P-5 level are going to want to go to WF in the first place.....as these are the kinds of players who are going to have much more attractive alternative offers from other schools which are much better positioned to further their football careers. Secondly...and assuming that you are not stooping so low as to completely sacrifice academic integrity to build a football program....these potential football players are going to have to do things they might not have to do as much of at those other schools....like go to class. Thirdly, is there any need to even discuss the relative desirability of social life for football players at WF compared to that at these other larger schools?

How long have you been following WF football? I've been watching WF football for 59 of the 65 years they have played in the ACC (my 1st game was a 13-7 win over NC State in 1958). That's a pretty good sample size. You can live in your fantasy world of thinking that WF is now playing on a level field with the likes of Clemson, Florida State, Miami, UNC....hell, even Virginia, Boston College & Syracuse or the rest of the schools in the ACC....if you wish, but I'm here to tell you that it just ain't so. Clawson will probably never have a winning season at WF, but it's not all his fault. I don't think that Grobe could do it again, either....nor any other coach that you can convince to come here and get his ass beat on a regular basis for a couple million dollars per year. And that's really the only reason any coach would take this job.

ETA: And after 65 years of results, it's rather laughable that you are saying that I am the one who is ignoring facts.

Also, if you are going to call me dumb, please use "you're" rather than "your".
 
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Bkf, Wake's disadvantage is in its administration. I'm sure we both agree on that. That is what's holding Wake back any more. Wake is now in a position (P5) where with the right coach and leadership it can afford to offer a great package to the student athlete. Same as other P5 academic schools. Wake makes itself a black sheep all on its own.
 
Lohengrin said:
Bkf, Wake's disadvantage is in its administration. I'm sure we both agree on that. That is what's holding Wake back any more. Wake is now in a position (P5) where with the right coach and leadership it can afford to offer a great package to the student athlete. Same as other P5 academic schools. Wake makes itself a black sheep all on its own.
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I agree with you that the administration has done a poor job for quite awhile.....but that is far from the only problem facing WF in today's money-driven college sports world. What kind of "great package" do you suggest WF offer these athletes in order to entice them to choose WF over Clemson or Florida State? No classes, money under the table and a 24-hour standby call service for women?

Why in hell would a good football player choose to go to WF if he could instead go to Clemson, Florida State, Miami or Carolina? Under the very best of circumstances, all WF is ever going to get are the recruiting leftovers from these other schools. At a lower level, maybe the right coach could compete at WF, but not in a P-5 conference.

You don't have to believe me, though, just keep watching....like I've been doing for the last 59 years.
 
bobknightfan said:
I understand the points you are making. It's just that they are not nearly enough to overcome all the disadvantages that remain for a school like WF to compete in football in today's P-5 conferences. What are some of those disadvantages? First & foremost, very few players who are likely to be good enough to help WF in football at the P-5 level are going to want to go to WF in the first place.....as these are the kinds of players who are going to have much more attractive alternative offers from other schools which are much better positioned to further their football careers. Secondly...and assuming that you are not stooping so low as to completely sacrifice academic integrity to build a football program....these potential football players are going to have to do things they might not have to do as much of at those other schools....like go to class. Thirdly, is there any need to even discuss the relative desirability of social life for football players at WF compared to that at these other larger schools?

How long have you been following WF football? I've been watching WF football for 59 of the 65 years they have played in the ACC (my 1st game was a 13-7 win over NC State in 1958). That's a pretty good sample size. You can live in your fantasy world of thinking that WF is now playing on a level field with the likes of Clemson, Florida State, Miami, UNC....hell, even Virginia, Boston College & Syracuse or the rest of the schools in the ACC....if you wish, but I'm here to tell you that it just ain't so. Clawson will probably never have a winning season at WF, but it's not all his fault. I don't think that Grobe could do it again, either....nor any other coach that you can convince to come here and get his ass beat on a regular basis for a couple million dollars per year. And that's really the only reason any coach would take this job.

ETA: And after 65 years of results, it's rather laughable that you are saying that I am the one who is ignoring facts.

Also, if you are going to call me dumb, please use "you're" rather than "your".
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Same old excuse garbage based on no evidence. The usual horseshit where Wake is the only P5 school that makes kids go to class and can play football. We lose because we don't take enough exceptions excuse. You think Wake is a really special place don't you. You don't think GT has a rigorous academic environment? And fifty others? You learned these lame excuses when some of them were actually true. I've been watching Wake football longer than you, but have not become a calcified old man with his head stuck in 1965.
 
bobknightfan said:
I agree with you that the administration has done a poor job for quite awhile.....but that is far from the only problem facing WF in today's money-driven college sports world. What kind of "great package" do you suggest WF offer these athletes in order to entice them to choose WF over Clemson or Florida State? No classes, money under the table and a 24-hour standby call service for women?

Why in hell would a good football player choose to go to WF if he could instead go to Clemson, Florida State, Miami or Carolina? Under the very best of circumstances, all WF is ever going to get are the recruiting leftovers from these other schools. At a lower level, maybe the right coach could compete at WF, but not in a P-5 conference.

You don't have to believe me, though, just keep watching....like I've been doing for the last 59 years.
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We don't necessarily have to recruit on par with FSU or Clemson. There are more academically-oriented recruits. It won't get us a national championship but there are many, many P5 schools who have little chance of a NC. The "package" we can offer is the top flight education together with big time football -- our league -- and top flight facilities. Again, not the extravagance of FSU, but enough to win 50+% of the time (and occasionally have great seasons).
 
To be fair, the evidence is our win loss record. Comparing us to a state school in the middle of Atlanta is apples and oranges. The sheer number of majors other schools offer and the number of students guarantees easier majors and an easier road to graduation..talk to your friends that went to State, ECU, etc. If you want to skate through easily it's very possible. If you think that doesn't affect our ability to field a competitive football team then I don't know what to tell you..this should not apply in basketball
 
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I have a tough time with the idea that we could only score 7 against Tulane because of our "package."
 
We have to earn respectability. I'll probably spend next week watching tapes of the 2006 season. I'll wait until Delaware to hope for progress, because I've been losing faith in the Claw.
 
BacktoBack said:
To be fair, the evidence is our win loss record. Comparing us to a state school in the middle of Atlanta is apples and oranges. The sheer number of majors other schools offer and the number of students guarantees easier majors and an easier road to graduation..talk to your friends that went to State, ECU, etc. If you want to skate through easily it's very possible. If you think that doesn't affect our ability to field a competitive football team then I don't know what to tell you..this should not apply in basketball
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Duke
 
Well, in the area of campus environment - Wake was named the #14 party school by a publication recently, and in the top 25 in another that listed the top universities by the combo academics and social scene. Who'd a thunk it? So, a talented and smart football player might like that.
 
macktheknife said:
Duke
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What happened to the comparison to Stanford? That one was about the most ridiculous of all. Comparing WF football to Duke football is pretty bad, too. Duke once had a 29-year stretch in which they only had 1 losing season.

WF & Vanderbilt or WF & Rice are more realistic comparisons.
 
bobknightfan said:
I understand the points you are making. It's just that they are not nearly enough to overcome all the disadvantages that remain for a school like WF to compete in football in today's P-5 conferences. What are some of those disadvantages? First & foremost, very few players who are likely to be good enough to help WF in football at the P-5 level are going to want to go to WF in the first place.....as these are the kinds of players who are going to have much more attractive alternative offers from other schools which are much better positioned to further their football careers. Secondly...and assuming that you are not stooping so low as to completely sacrifice academic integrity to build a football program....these potential football players are going to have to do things they might not have to do as much of at those other schools....like go to class. Thirdly, is there any need to even discuss the relative desirability of social life for football players at WF compared to that at these other larger schools?

How long have you been following WF football? I've been watching WF football for 59 of the 65 years they have played in the ACC (my 1st game was a 13-7 win over NC State in 1958). That's a pretty good sample size. You can live in your fantasy world of thinking that WF is now playing on a level field with the likes of Clemson, Florida State, Miami, UNC....hell, even Virginia, Boston College & Syracuse or the rest of the schools in the ACC....if you wish, but I'm here to tell you that it just ain't so. Clawson will probably never have a winning season at WF, but it's not all his fault. I don't think that Grobe could do it again, either....nor any other coach that you can convince to come here and get his ass beat on a regular basis for a couple million dollars per year. And that's really the only reason any coach would take this job.

ETA: And after 65 years of results, it's rather laughable that you are saying that I am the one who is ignoring facts.

Also, if you are going to call me dumb, please use "you're" rather than "your".
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BC, Syracuse, Miami, all top flight rigorous private schools.
 
bobknightfan said:
What happened to the comparison to Stanford? That one was about the most ridiculous of all. Comparing WF football to Duke football is pretty bad, too. Duke once had a 29-year stretch in which they only had 1 losing season.

WF & Vanderbilt or WF & Rice are more realistic comparisons.
Click to expand...
Northwestern
 
bobknightfan said:
What happened to the comparison to Stanford? That one was about the most ridiculous of all. Comparing WF football to Duke football is pretty bad, too. Duke once had a 29-year stretch in which they only had 1 losing season.

WF & Vanderbilt or WF & Rice are more realistic comparisons.
Click to expand...

Boston College
 
bobknightfan said:
What happened to the comparison to Stanford? That one was about the most ridiculous of all. Comparing WF football to Duke football is pretty bad, too. Duke once had a 29-year stretch in which they only had 1 losing season.

WF & Vanderbilt or WF & Rice are more realistic comparisons.
Click to expand...

Syracuse
 
bobknightfan said:
What happened to the comparison to Stanford? That one was about the most ridiculous of all. Comparing WF football to Duke football is pretty bad, too. Duke once had a 29-year stretch in which they only had 1 losing season.

WF & Vanderbilt or WF & Rice are more realistic comparisons.
Click to expand...

Baylor
 
bobknightfan said:
What happened to the comparison to Stanford? That one was about the most ridiculous of all. Comparing WF football to Duke football is pretty bad, too. Duke once had a 29-year stretch in which they only had 1 losing season.

WF & Vanderbilt or WF & Rice are more realistic comparisons.
Click to expand...

Yeah Army used to be a football power decades ago about the time Duke was doing what you speak of above too.
 
macktheknife said:
Same old excuse garbage based on no evidence. The usual horseshit where Wake is the only P5 school that makes kids go to class and can play football. We lose because we don't take enough exceptions excuse. You think Wake is a really special place don't you. You don't think GT has a rigorous academic environment? And fifty others? You learned these lame excuses when some of them were actually true. I've been watching Wake football longer than you, but have not become a calcified old man with his head stuck in 1965.
Click to expand...

Really? How old are you?
 
liveanddiedeac said:
Yeah Army used to be a football power decades ago about the time Duke was doing what you speak of above too.
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The point is that WF has never done anything remotely close to what either of them have done.....in 108 years. So what gives anyone reason to believe that they can accomplish anything like that now?
 
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