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Ms piggy likes to pork

bym051d said:
IIRC, before the e-mail issue, Clinton was generally well regarded as a very good SoS.
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That is on par with the argument that the Dallas BLM protest was perfectly peaceful if you ignore all those cops getting killed.
 
WakeandBake said:
Ive been told for 25+ years that I am supposed to despise her. The left has been luke-warm on her during that period an has told me she is not a good messenger. Fine. But now we are weeks away from her possibly taking the white house, and I am objectively looking at her and I cannot muster up the dislike my compatriots on the left are telling me Im supposed to be holding my nose and voting for in spite of, and I certainly don't see the disgusting abhorrence that the right sees.

I think the power of suggestion is strong, and people are responding to her the way the drumbeat of groupthink has told them to respond to her year after year. Im trying to look at her outside of that.

Maybe I am fooling myself, or psyching myself out. :noidea:
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You're probably fooling yourself to some extent. Just like I would be if I tried to convince you that Donald Trump would make a great president. I don't see either as a transformational leader who will make two fucks of difference in my life. Many believe, including myself, that the success or failure of a Presidency is more determined by external circumstances than who happens to be sitting in the Oval Office.

My biggest problem with Hillary is her insincerity. The email scandal validated my low opinion of her as a leader. The rules surrounding handling of classified information are pretty easy to follow. We have young kids serving in the military who learn them quickly. The easy comeback is to say she wasn't indicted, but there were plenty of shortcomings identified that should leave one questioning her fitness to serve as CINC. The most disappointing part to me was her attempt to scatter blame to the career State Department personnel who communicated with her via email. That's an example of poor leadership that really fucks up good organizations. I generally hate her impulse to lie, hunker down and blame others. Because of her history and shortcomings, I just can't visualize her being better than a mediocre President

I'm really not sure what sort of President Trump would make. He's a real wildcard. I suppose there's around a 75% chance he would be in the bottom quartile and a 10% chance he would do okay (15% he is either a total disaster or the next Teddy Roosevelt). There seem to be a lot of people willing to roll the dice. It will be interesting to see if some sort of Brexit ground swell actually happens. The bottom line is that I don't see either of these clowns popping up on Mt. Rushmore.
 
There's no chance Trump will be anything other than an abject failure. If there were no other events, his 3AM tweets this morning disqualify him from EVER being anything other than a contractor.
 
This is the kind of person the Clinton campaign holds up as a paragon of virtue. Says all you need to know about the kind of person Hillary is and her judgment.
PHeIGK.png
 
RJKarl said:
There's no chance Trump will be anything other than an abject failure. If there were no other events, his 3AM tweets this morning disqualify him from EVER being anything other than a contractor.
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I'm glad Trump is up at all hours of the night. It lets me know he'll be watching out for us, like a cat.
 
I wouldn't want the man who tweeted those things to pick up the red phone at 3 am.
 
BobStackFan4Life said:
This is the kind of person the Clinton campaign holds up as a paragon of virtue. Says all you need to know about the kind of person Hillary is and her judgment.
PHeIGK.png
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Great photograph of some good americans exercising their second amendment rights. also, good on them for wearing high-visibility hunting gear. that's just smart.
 
WakeandBake said:
Sickening? Sitting around? failed stint as SOS?

dude I get you don't like her because you are a tough guy republican who ain't PC and all that, but your description of her is hackneyed. She got shit done whether you like it or not. If Condi chickenhawk Rice was on the team that got bin Laden, you'd be out canvassing for her in a heartbeat and ignoring her failed and possibly criminal Iraq policies.
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Sickening for her lack of ethics and sincerity, something that goes back to bimbo eruptions, dumping the travel office for her friends, hiding files for two years so they could be vetted and cleansed of incriminating material, and that is bookended most recently by the e-mail shit, which people seem to forget was brought on by her desire to keep things out of the public eye. Sickening because she hopped into a Senate seat she had zero business running for in a state where she had never lived. I mean, who the fuck does that? How did she even earn that opportunity? What the hell did she know about being a New Yorker? Jack shit. And what did she do as a junior Senator? Basically kept the seat warm while she prepped for a run in 2008. She might have given it a shot in 2004 had she not voted for the war, but by 2008 she felt she had put enough distance between her and the vote. And for her failed 2008 campaign she got the SOS slot. With an administration given a lot of slack and welcomed with open arms, she contributed to wars in Libya and Syria after denouncing essentially the same shit in Iraq. Yeah, great, but let's give her credit for Bin Laden, which had nothing to do with the State Department.

And I was never big on Condi. Smart gal, but best suited for the State Department as an academic.
 
Travelgate, really? Another manufactured scandal where no charges of wrongdoing was found. The bimbo eruptions don't move the needle with me, as hell hath no fury....

Bottom line, she won in NY and her constituents liked her and she did quite a bit more than keep the seat warm. Fair enough on the wars in Libya and Syria, but hardly a failed stint. But by all means, for for Gary Johnson or Donald Trump using that same logic.
 
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WakeandBake said:
Travelgate, really? Another manufactured scandal that no charges of wrongdoing was found. The bimbo eruptions don't move the needle with me, as hell hath no fury....

Bottom line, she won in NY and her constituents liked her and she did quite a bit more than keep the seat warm. Fair enough on the wars in Libya and Syria, but hardly a failed stint. But by all means, for for Gary Johnson or Donald Trump using that same logic.
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Well, it the NY left-libs liked her, then that should be good enough for everybody else.
 
WakeandBake said:
Travelgate, really? Another manufactured scandal that no charges of wrongdoing was found. The bimbo eruptions don't move the needle with me, as hell hath no fury....

Bottom line, she won in NY and her constituents liked her and she did quite a bit more than keep the seat warm. Fair enough on the wars in Libya and Syria, but hardly a failed stint. But by all means, for for Gary Johnson or Donald Trump using that same logic.
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Travelgate was not illegal, just unethical. It was also the beginning of 25 years of Hillary not recalling shit. The bimbo eruptions are problematic because she knew Bill was a cad and yet sought to handle these women by pulverizing their reputations when she knew that many of them were telling the truth. I mean, I get that politics is a mean game and she was playing it, but it's reflective of her willingness to play that game at all costs and to latch herself onto Bill to further her future. Just look at the Trump/Miss Piggy stuff, where it is established that he saved her job and title, and contrast how he's being hit with that versus how Hillary was treated with kid gloves on how she handled Bill's women.
 
EatLeadCommie said:
Travelgate was not illegal, just unethical. It was also the beginning of 25 years of Hillary not recalling shit. The bimbo eruptions are problematic because she knew Bill was a cad and yet sought to handle these women by pulverizing their reputations when she knew that many of them were telling the truth. I mean, I get that politics is a mean game and she was playing it, but it's reflective of her willingness to play that game at all costs and to latch herself onto Bill to further her future. Just look at the Trump/Miss Piggy stuff, where it is established that he saved her job and title, and contrast how he's being hit with that versus how Hillary was treated with kid gloves on how she handled Bill's women.
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You are, like most, holding her to a higher standard than many of her predecessors. The women, and Bill's propensity for mistresses, has nothing to do with running this country, at all. How cuckolded women handle their husbands' paramours is personal in most people's opinions. Clinton's opposition made political hay out of every aspect of it because they wanted to win the next election. It has nothing to do with governing. American's are fixed on puritan ideals that make good tabloid pap but have nothing to do with shit. I get your point comparing her handling vs Trumps, but she 1) is a woman and 2) those women knowingly fucked her husband, a married man. (cue the 'he raped them' hysteria, something that has heretofore not been proven) Trump's women gained weight. You can't see the difference?

As for latching onto coattails, I don't see how that is uniquely Hillary or even something in the con column. Trump and his daddy. W and Jeb and their daddy. That's as American as anything in business and politics. I can see how her opposition wants to paint it as some charter flaw, but it is flimsy. Doors open for people in life, and not walking through them is as much as a problem as walking through them. I don't disparage Trump for using his daddy's seed money, I disparage him for squandering it and not even beating the market while simultaneously boasting that he is a good businessmen. He's not.

You don't seem to understand the problem with the Miss Universe thing. That he saved her job is not the point, he callously and boorishly calls her fat and shames her. This is indicative of how he treats women, and thinks of women as objects. May or may not be illegal - but tasteless, cruel, undignified, callous, boorish, sad, and unfair. That is what she is highlighting about his character, and she is right.



or I could just be trying to convince myself to sell Hillary to myself, who the fuck knows?
 
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WakeandBake said:
You don't seem to understand the problem with the Miss Universe thing. That he saved her job is not the point, he callously and boorishly calls her fat and shames her. This is indicative of how he treats women, and thinks of women as objects. May or may not be illegal - but tasteless, cruel, undignified, callous, boorish, sad, and unfair. That is what she is highlighting about his character, and she is right.



or I could just be trying to convince myself to sell Hillary to myself, who the fuck knows?
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You know Hillary called Gennifer Flowers "trailer trash" and worked hard to discredit the women Bill had abused. What about the way she treats women? You don't give a fuck about that do you? But poor, sweet Hillary, being held to a double standard. GTFO with that bullshit.
 
Perhaps Gennifer Flowers is trailer trash, I mean look at how she spells her name. :thumbsup:

As far as I'm concerned, women trashing each other when banging the same man is far less egregious than a man trashing a woman for her looks. :noidea:

Her record with women on the whole is far better than Donald Trumps. GTFO with that bullshit
 
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