• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Prominent Libertarian Charles Murray Changes His Mind on Low-Skill Immigration

TownieDeac said:
It's also not what the Japanese think, because they're flailing to try and turn back the clock on an aging population, and begging North Africans to come work there.
Click to expand...

How significant are the numbers? How many North Africans are they begging to come work there?
 
BobStackFan4Life said:
How significant are the numbers? How many North Africans are they begging to come work there?
Click to expand...

You know you can Google, right?

Hidenori Sakanaka’s message is very clear: Only immigration can save Japan. Sakanaka, a former Justice Ministry official and director of the Tokyo Immigration Bureau, proposes bringing in 10 million migrants over 50 years. In making his case for opening up the country, he cites a mountain of demographic evidence, specifically the declining and aging population and the shrinking workforce.
Click to expand...
 
ImTheCaptain said:
actually you didn't make a point, you made 3 claims with zero support. the onus is on you to tell us why you think they're so well-off
Click to expand...

Tell me why you think they're not well off when they have one of the highest standards of living in the world.
 
BobStackFan4Life said:
Tell me why you think they're not well off when they have one of the highest standards of living in the world.
Click to expand...

They want to keep that standard of living high, which means paying for tripling health care costs as the working age population retires, which means they need new workers to pay pensions and health costs, which means getting new workers from other countries.
 
TownieDeac said:
You know you can Google, right?
Click to expand...

Your google doesn't elaborate on the point you made. How many North Africans did the Japanese "beg" to come live there and how many are there? Because I'm sure you know hundreds of thousands of North African immigrants are regularly risking their lives to get into Europe. So if the Japanese are begging them- why risk your life on a dangerous crossing in a rickety boat.
 
Here's what the Southern Poverty Law Center says about Charles Murray:

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/charles-murray

"Charles Murray, a fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, has become one of the most influential social scientists in America, using racist pseudoscience and misleading statistics to argue that social inequality is caused by the genetic inferiority of the black and Latino communities, women and the poor."

"According to Murray, disadvantaged groups are disadvantaged because, on average, they cannot compete with white men, who are intellectually, psychologically and morally superior. Murray advocates the total elimination of the welfare state, affirmative action and the Department of Education, arguing that public policy cannot overcome the innate deficiencies that cause unequal social and educational outcomes."

"“Try to imagine a … presidential candidate saying in front of the cameras, ‘One reason that we still have poverty in the United States is that a lot of poor people are born lazy.’ You cannot imagine it because that kind of thing cannot be said. And yet this unimaginable statement merely implies that when we know the complete genetic story, it will turn out that the population below the poverty line in the United States has a configuration of the relevant genetic makeup that is significantly different from the configuration of the population above the poverty line. This is not unimaginable. It is almost certainly true.”
—“Deeper Into the Brain,” National Review, 2000"

I'll give bob the benefit of the doubt that bob doesn't realize he is promoting the thoughts of one of the nation's most well known racists and white supremacists.

Charles Murray is an uptown, Klansman/Aryan Nation type who wears a suit and uses big words to try to hide his white supremacist core.

I hope bob simply doesn't know who Murray is (and is regurgitating posts like a lemming) versus being a overt supporter of one of the most disgusting, unapologetic racists America has seen for the past 50+ years.
 
Charles Murray was once the CFO of a nine figure company
 
BobStackFan4Life said:
Your google doesn't elaborate on the point you made. How many North Africans did the Japanese "beg" to come live there and how many are there? Because I'm sure you know hundreds of thousands of North African immigrants are regularly risking their lives to get into Europe. So if the Japanese are begging them- why risk your life on a dangerous crossing in a rickety boat.
Click to expand...

Seriously, use Google. There are lots of reasons North Africans don't want to go to Japan.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/communi...e-growing-integration-gap-japan/#.V_ZePSgrKUk
 
wakephan09 said:
Liberal rags.
Click to expand...

You assume Townie is intimately familiar with what the OECD, World Bank, and IMF think? Let's ignore the criticism of these organizations, do you think they say Japan is in worse shape than most western nations? Apparently townie thinks so. Do you agree with him? Or are you just taking what he says on faith? I don't know what they say about Japan's immigration policies- apparently townie wants to pretend he does. So I'm all ears. Doesn't mean I'll agree, but would love for townie to tell me. Same goes for what they say about Japan's population. I doubt he knows, but he knows they're establishment organizations and economists are always pro-growth in terms of population. So it's a safe bet he's right. But the fact is, he doesn't know.
 
Foreigners who go to Japan to live will never be treated as equals by the Japanese public. This doesn't matter if the person is a laborer or an executive. Also, there will absolutely be a limit to acceptance and level of success gaijin are permitted in Japan.
 
BobStackFan4Life said:
You assume Townie is intimately familiar with what the OECD, World Bank, and IMF think? Let's ignore the criticism of these organizations, do you think they say Japan is in worse shape than most western nations? Apparently townie thinks so. Do you agree with him? Or are you just taking what he says on faith? I don't know what they say about Japan's immigration policies- apparently townie wants to pretend he does. So I'm all ears. Doesn't mean I'll agree, but would love for townie to tell me. Same goes for what they say about Japan's population. I doubt he knows, but he knows they're establishment organizations and economists are always pro-growth in terms of population. So it's a safe bet he's right. But the fact is, he doesn't know.
Click to expand...

i assume he's more familiar with them than you are Japan's economic health. absolutely
 
TownieDeac said:
Seriously, use Google. There are lots of reasons North Africans don't want to go to Japan.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/communi...e-growing-integration-gap-japan/#.V_ZePSgrKUk
Click to expand...

You suggested they're "begging" large numbers of North African immigrants to come to Japan to boost their aging population. Give me the numbers. I think you're full of shit. I think the numbers are relatively small, certainly when compared to Europe. And it has almost nothing to do with integration- it has to do with the fact it is far easier for North Africans to make the perilous trip to Europe than get an invite to Japan.
 
BobStackFan4Life said:
You assume Townie is intimately familiar with what the OECD, World Bank, and IMF think? Let's ignore the criticism of these organizations, do you think they say Japan is in worse shape than most western nations? Apparently townie thinks so. Do you agree with him? Or are you just taking what he says on faith? I don't know what they say about Japan's immigration policies- apparently townie wants to pretend he does. So I'm all ears. Doesn't mean I'll agree, but would love for townie to tell me. Same goes for what they say about Japan's population. I doubt he knows, but he knows they're establishment organizations and economists are always pro-growth in terms of population. So it's a safe bet he's right. But the fact is, he doesn't know.
Click to expand...

OECD - https://www.oecd.org/economy/japan-economic-forecast-summary.htm
World Bank - http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/20...saying-0-5-growth-expected-2016/#.V_Zh_igrKUk
IMF - https://www.yahoo.com/news/imf-boos...-warns-over-deflation-131241432--finance.html

I did this via Google.
 
BobStackFan4Life said:
You assume Townie is intimately familiar with what the OECD, World Bank, and IMF think?
Click to expand...

No, but Townie has demonstrated what we might call intellectual curiosity. Even cursory Google searches are closer to research than retweeting internet ideologues and mindlessly spouting partisan talking points.
 
Without knowing who Charles Murray is or how Japanese business and society work using them as examples of anything is ludicrous.
 
BobStackFan4Life said:
You suggested they're "begging" large numbers of North African immigrants to come to Japan to boost their aging population. Give me the numbers. I think you're full of shit. I think the numbers are relatively small, certainly when compared to Europe. And it has almost nothing to do with integration- it has to do with the fact it is far easier for North Africans to make the perilous trip to Europe than get an invite to Japan.
Click to expand...

Actually, it has everything to do with integration. Abe still says he wants immigrants to completely assimilate--learn the language, local customs (like imperial customs that North Africans are not likely to respect).

Additionally, the Japanese haven't really granted asylum or citizen status to most of the immigrants who move there.

The shift from only wanting to attract student visas to trying to attract menial labor has been very difficult, because they want their cake and to eat it too. Indeed, Japan on the whole is still largely xenophobic and Islamophobic. So as long as the think tanks/economists and the politicians are at loggerheads, it doesn't matter how much companies are asking for cheap labor from N. Africa. You're right (for the wrong reasons) on that front.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top