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Hillary Clinton and First Lady Michelle Obama Speaking in the Joel

You vastly underestimate how hard it is to get a state issued ID for a lot of people in many states.
 
scooter84 said:
OK, so republicans commit rampant voter fraud and suppression and the dems do not. Really? The democratic efforts to block voter ID laws make many types of voter fraud very difficult to catch. If we don't catch it, it's not happening, right? I can't argue based on evidence b/c I don't have time to do the research and, as I said, there isn't a lot of evidence. In places like Chicago, a democratic stronghold, voting manipulation has been a way of life for decades. It is just one of those things that 'everyone knows'. If you want to refuse to acknowledge it, that is fine - I don't really care.
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You don't realize how foolish you look. You can't find evidence. It's hard to catch. But "everyone knows" it's happening and I'm supposed to acknowledge it even though you can only list one city where it supposedly happens.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
You vastly underestimate how hard it is to get a state issued ID for a lot of people in many states.
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Yep. And that's because Republicans purposely make it difficult. Time and time again, left leaning posters have said they favor voter ID as long as it's easy to get ID and register to vote.
 
scooter84 said:
I'm not going to read all that but I can assume what it says. The only law I have even mentioned was voter ID. And I unapologetically feel it only logical to require an ID to vote. I was amazed the first time I voted and didn't have to show any kind of ID - it makes no sense to me. There are ways to make it ridiculously easy to get an id, if you don't have one. If someone has the wherewithal to want to get out and vote, then they can get the ID they need. I don't believe that is voter suppression.
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You are "fixing" a problem that doesn't exist.

Thanks for proving my point. First you ask for legitimate proof that would show your POV doesn't make sense. Then when it is given to you. you say, "I don't care about the proof".

You don't care that politicians who passed the laws categorically state the reason for them was to hold down votes from blacks and those who oppose them. You don't care that in 1 BILLION votes on 31 cases of voter impersonation were found.

You are being disingenuous and dishonest.
 
RJKarl said:
You are "fixing" a problem that doesn't exist.

Thanks for proving my point. First you ask for legitimate proof that would show your POV doesn't make sense. Then when it is given to you. you say, "I don't care about the proof".

You don't care that politicians who passed the laws categorically state the reason for them was to hold down votes from blacks and those who oppose them. You don't care that in 1 BILLION votes on 31 cases of voter impersonation were found.

You are being disingenuous and dishonest.
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I'm being disingenuous yet you believe there have only been 31 cases of voter impersonation?

I didn't ask you to give me proof against my point of view. I said I didn't have proof.

I know there are terrible people who are politicians and that they say terrible things. You didn't have to prove that.
 
PhDeac said:
Yep. And that's because Republicans purposely make it difficult. Time and time again, left leaning posters have said they favor voter ID as long as it's easy to get ID and register to vote.
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I said make it easy - make it as easy as you want. Fine with me.
 
scooter84 said:
I said make it easy - make it as easy as you want. Fine with me.
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I seriously doubt you support politicians who want to make it easy to get an ID as part of Voter ID laws.
 
PhDeac said:
You don't realize how foolish you look. You can't find evidence. It's hard to catch. But "everyone knows" it's happening and I'm supposed to acknowledge it even though you can only list one city where it supposedly happens.
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I don't care if you acknowledge it - I said that. I don't have evidence of a lot of things. I know human nature and I know, despite what you believe, that republicans do not have the market cornered on bad humans or people who will cheat in order to win...
 
scooter84 said:
I said make it easy - make it as easy as you want. Fine with me.
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I agree that it should be made very easy to get a government ID. Until then, we need to have laws that allow everybody to vote, since it is a Constitutionally protected right.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
I agree that it should be made very easy to get a government ID. Until then, we need to have laws that allow everybody to vote, since it is a Constitutionally protected right.
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How easy does it need to be? It is not exactly hard now. How little effort do we want people to put out in order to elect someone to the most important position in the world. Would we not get a little more informed voters if there was some tiny bit of responsibility put on the voters?
 
knowell said:
How easy does it need to be? It is not exactly hard now. How little effort do we want people to put out in order to elect someone to the most important position in the world. Would we not get a little more informed voters if there was some tiny bit of responsibility put on the voters?
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Take it up with the Constitution. It's a defined Constitutional right.

I'll play though:

16 year old in New York City never gets his license, comes from a split family and doesn't have his birth certificate handy/got lost (or however you want to look at it). He moves to Oklahoma where he wants to get his license/government issued ID.

How does he get his license?
 
knowell said:
How easy does it need to be? It is not exactly hard now. How little effort do we want people to put out in order to elect someone to the most important position in the world. Would we not get a little more informed voters if there was some tiny bit of responsibility put on the voters?
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knowell and scooter, just cut the charade and admit you simply don't want Democrats to vote.
 
PhDeac said:
knowell and scooter, just cut the charade and admit you simply don't want Democrats to vote.
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Try not to be such an ass PhD. I'm not a bad person. I try to assume that others aren't bad people. We're all just doing the best we can and espousing ideas and theories that we think are right, just, and the best for humanity overall. We just have different opinions as to what those ideas and theories are. I happen to believe that it makes perfect sense that a person identify themselves when they want to vote - you know, to make sure they really are who they say they are. I don't believe that because I want to prevent any particular portion of the populace from voting - I believe that because I think it makes sense and because it would prevent any possibility of voter fraud - by anyone on either side.
At the same time I realize that voting is a right and that everyone should be able to vote if they want to - so I am in favor of making it very easy to get the necessary ID.

Can you stop trying to paint me into a corner as some kind of evil OWG? I'm just a generally apolitical dude trying to get by - and I really should just stay off of this board, truth be told...
 
Deacsfan27 said:
Take it up with the Constitution. It's a defined Constitutional right.

I'll play though:

16 year old in New York City never gets his license, comes from a split family and doesn't have his birth certificate handy/got lost (or however you want to look at it). He moves to Oklahoma where he wants to get his license/government issued ID.

How does he get his license?
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I have no idea how that process works but I bet he figures it out because what teenager wants to live in Oklahoma without a license? amirite?
 
Deacsfan27 said:
Take it up with the Constitution. It's a defined Constitutional right.

I'll play though:

16 year old in New York City never gets his license, comes from a split family and doesn't have his birth certificate handy/got lost (or however you want to look at it). He moves to Oklahoma where he wants to get his license/government issued ID.

How does he get his license?
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How does he do the many things that require ID? Most every week of your life an ID is needed for something. I am perfectly fine with making the vote provisional of the tiny fraction of people who are so disassociated with the world around them that they live with no ID and cannot be bothered to get one. Can't imagine this would cause harm.
 
knowell said:
How does he do the many things that require ID? Most every week of your life an ID is needed for something. I am perfectly fine with making the vote provisional of the tiny fraction of people who are so disassociated with the world around them that they live with no ID and cannot be bothered to get one. Can't imagine this would cause harm.
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like what
 
PhDeac said:
knowell and scooter, just cut the charade and admit you simply don't want Democrats to vote.
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LOL at the idea that democrats are too stupid and irresponsible to get an ID. I have a slightly higher opinion of most democrats than that.
 
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