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Ongoing Dem Debacle Thread: Commander will kill us all

ChrisL68 said:
It is like night and day. Bernie wants a highly progressive taxation system with high corporate taxes on worldwide taxation with a giant safety net. He is really anti business.
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Yeah, we are better off just spending and spending on aircraft carriers and shit while cutting taxes.
 
birdman said:
Yeah, we are better off just spending and spending on aircraft carriers and shit while cutting taxes.
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There is plenty of reasonable middle ground between that and crazy Bernie's economy killing policies.

That said, you leftists should really be thankful for some changes to the corporate tax policy. Republicans have inadvertedly opened up a worldwide mechanism for corporate taxation that I expect the left will take advantage of at some point. Pretty much all foreign income will be subject to GILTI taxation. The only thing that will save it are the rates, the deduction percentage and the foreign tax credits, but those can both be adjusted. The tangible asset return is miniscule and pretty much all foreign income will be deemed intangible income They were pretty much stuck with deferral before under the old CFC model.
 
birdman said:
Yeah, we are better off just spending and spending on aircraft carriers and shit while cutting taxes.
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I doubt ChrisL spends much time accounting for our 700 billion (previously just 549 billion!) defense budget. You know because money is just a vague ethereal concept until someone plans to spend it on helping Americans instead of killing Arabs. That 38 billion we give to Israel every year? Monopoly money. The 1.5 trillion on the F-35 fighter jet boondoggle? Chucky Cheese tokens.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
I doubt ChrisL spends much time accounting for our 700 billion (previously just 549 billion!) defense budget. You know because money is just a vague ethereal concept until someone plans to spend it on helping Americans instead of killing Arabs. That 38 billion we give to Israel every year? Monopoly money. The 1.5 trillion on the F-35 fighter jet boondoggle? Chucky Cheese tokens.
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See you have to make things up about my positions. Have I ever posted here supporting high levels of military spending?

I get it. You are an anti-business marxist clown.
 
ChrisL68 said:
See you have to make things up about my positions. Have I ever posted here supporting high levels of military spending?

I get it. You are an anti-business marxist clown.
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I definitely hate businesses, almost as much as you hate it when people make up positions.
 
unemployment rate is a pretty weak metric

I'm definitely fine to go on record as being anti-business in favor of the environment, culture, and equality, just to name a few

There are things more important than the economy
 
Ongoing Dem Debacle Thread: A New Hope

Especially giving huge inequality and lack of social mobility. At least let the poors have clean air and water.
 
JuiceCrewAllStar said:
unemployment rate is a pretty weak metric

I'm definitely fine to go on record as being anti-business in favor of the environment, culture, and equality, just to name a few

There are things more important than the economy
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This is not a radical or revolutionary concept. The Government should play a role in protecting it's citizens from all manner of nefarious forces, like terrorism, unfettered capitalism, environmental destruction, racial discrimination, etc. It is really a simple analysis to say that Bernie or any democratic socialist is anti-business. Free college and single payer health care might actually be pretty pro-business since businesses will have a better educated and healthier population of employees and customers. If you don't like the tax plan that he floated in order to pay for his proposals, that's fine, give some constructive criticism or offer some alternatives, don't degrade into calling the ideas nonsense and anti-business marxism, thus driving away the more liberal wing from the Democratic party.
 
Well said. I just don’t understand the business rationale for not supporting some form of universal health care. Seems like a pain to run a business and worry about health care.
 
PhDeac said:
Well said. I just don’t understand the business rationale for not supporting some form of universal health care. Seems like a pain to run a business and worry about health care.
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Because then they can unilaterally choose to not fund certain anti-Christian women's healthcare resources.
 
PhDeac said:
Well said. I just don’t understand the business rationale for not supporting some form of universal health care. Seems like a pain to run a business and worry about health care.
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"business" is not monolithic. Some businesses might be better off by letting the government handle healthcare, even though presumably the businesses/owners would have to pay higher taxes to fund it. Other businesses are doing just fine not providing health care (because they are small, or they can outsource everything, or only hire part-timers, or whatever) and the owners make enough money to buy their own health insurance. those business owners just see the tax increase side of it.

Which is just another way of saying that the "Bernie Hates Business" argument is stupidly oversimplified. Even the most committed Democratic Socialist understands that private enterprise is the greatest wealth-building machine ever invented and it needs to thrive to fund the social programs society needs.
 
Deacon923 said:
"business" is not monolithic. Some businesses might be better off by letting the government handle healthcare, even though presumably the businesses/owners would have to pay higher taxes to fund it. Other businesses are doing just fine not providing health care (because they are small, or they can outsource everything, or only hire part-timers, or whatever) and the owners make enough money to buy their own health insurance. those business owners just see the tax increase side of it.

Which is just another way of saying that the "Bernie Hates Business" argument is stupidly oversimplified. Even the most committed Democratic Socialist understands that private enterprise is the greatest wealth-building machine ever invented and it needs to thrive to fund the social programs society needs.
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Ongoing Dem Debacle Thread: A New Hope

Deacon923 said:
"business" is not monolithic. Some businesses might be better off by letting the government handle healthcare, even though presumably the businesses/owners would have to pay higher taxes to fund it. Other businesses are doing just fine not providing health care (because they are small, or they can outsource everything, or only hire part-timers, or whatever) and the owners make enough money to buy their own health insurance. those business owners just see the tax increase side of it.

Which is just another way of saying that the "Bernie Hates Business" argument is stupidly oversimplified. Even the most committed Democratic Socialist understands that private enterprise is the greatest wealth-building machine ever invented and it needs to thrive to fund the social programs society needs.
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The Democratic Socialist argument here, I think, would be that when some business owners choose not to offer health coverage those employees with out health coverage become a public burden and then we all end up paying for them. Our bullshit system currently pretends there is wonderful joyous freedom but what it really does is socialize negatives while businesses profit...then they cut taxes for the businesses and claim we can’t afford actual socialized medicine. Anyone who questions that is label a nonsensical anti-business Marxist.
 
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ChrisL68 said:
Yes clearly with 4% unemployment and the highest median income of any country in the world. There are certain industries that need to be socialized such as medicine due to its inherent nature, but overall capitalism improve standards of living. Even the Nordic economies came to this conclusion.
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Just so we can put this strawman to bed.
 
Deacon923 said:
Even the most committed Democratic Socialist understands that private enterprise is the greatest wealth-building machine ever invented and it needs to thrive to fund the social programs society needs.
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Umm. Maybe check out a DSA meeting sometime.

This is from the more reformist caucus in East Bay (I think the 5th largest chapter):

Democratic socialists believe it's impossible to have democracy or social justice under capitalism, an economic system that concentrates wealth and power in the hands of a few. We fight for a society without class, where decisions about what to produce, and how to produce and distribute it, are made democratically. We fight for a society where every person regardless of gender, race, or cultural background has the opportunity to develop to their full human potential.
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