• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Ongoing Dem Debacle Thread: Commander will kill us all

MichDeac25 said:
The Dems just lost an election in part because they had an unlikeable candidate who failed to appeal to moderate working class Americans. Your suggestion is to ignore that and move further left on issues that don't appeal to the mainstream and to fall in line with a few individuals from urban districts. Not a winning strategy in my opinion. While you may dismiss my opinion, the issue is relevant. (And I might add, there are high up dems who share my opinion.) There is a reason Fox News and then Trump have focused sharply on everything AOC and friends do. They view it as a winning strategy.
Click to expand...

I’m curious what positions Dem candidates are taking that you think aren’t popular with mainstream Americans. I see that argument all the time from Pubs and centrist Dems and the numbers don’t appear to back it up. Healthcare, income inequality, climate change, and their related policy positions are all well above water among all registered voters in Gallup polling.
 
Mich, Republicans are focused on solidifying their base with white identity politics.

I don’t think I need to explain why playing into that is not a successful Dem strategy.
 
One of the biggest problems is how to get to the healthcare ends and how much it's going to cost. The reality is if you simply add a fully public option it will get everyone to the desired result in the quickest way as it dramatically cuts the cost of healthcare.

People get scared if you tell them you are going to end all private insurance. That's when most stop listening and start running away. However, if you tell people you'll have the option to buy a Medicare-like product and it will cost much less while explaining why it will cost less, they will listen and buy it.

The second part of the health plan should be one Day One, the nominee will put forth a bill to allow the federal government to negotiate prescription drug prices and this will drive down the cost of medications. Again, this is extremely easy to explain and understand.

This is a really easy message, but Dems are terrible at messaging and chicken to take a stand.
 
MichDeac25 said:
And here is a NYT article profiling voters in a swing county in Michigan saying the same thing, the "Squad" is less popular than Trump, and moving further left will leave them voting for Trump.

https://nyti.ms/2XUCpYl
Click to expand...

https://www.mlive.com/news/2016/11/...779W553I6F228ZC4TIVJ5EA8OQBT2CFMF8677O8W902UN

You are also forgetting that turnout in Detroit was lower than 2012 by 37,000+

It was also only 58.6%. If that number is pushed to 65% or higher, this alone could turn the entire state.

Just like Philadelphia and Allegheny counties could turn PA.
 
MichDeac25 said:
And here is a NYT article profiling voters in a swing county in Michigan saying the same thing, the "Squad" is less popular than Trump, and moving further left will leave them voting for Trump.

https://nyti.ms/2XUCpYl
Click to expand...

Mainstream media keep going to Trump supporters asking them why they like Trump.

Mich, if the Democrats try to appeal to Trump and these people’s white identity politics, they will lose more people than they will gain. I don’t know why you don’t understand it’s more than just white people voting in these elections. Appealing to people who openly express racial animosity hold steadfast that “I’m not racist” are not going to be part of any Democrat coalition going forward. That time has passed.

And though they dismiss Mr. Trump’s Twitter broadsides as excessive or juvenile, they voiced strong support for his re-election and expressed their own misgivings about the four women.
“They happen to be black or colored,” Dennis Kovach, 82, said of the women, as he watered the lawn of his home near the lake this weekend. “But I don’t think that viewpoint is a racist viewpoint. I think it’s — quit the bitching, if you don’t like it, do something different about it.”
Click to expand...

Look at this. Let's be real, Mich. That guy is voting for Trump. These are Congresswomen who are putting up legislation and this asshole is saying "quit the bitching" and ignoring that they're doing something.
 
Last edited:
PhDeac said:
Mainstream media keep going to Trump supporters asking them why they like Trump.

Mich, if the Democrats try to appeal to Trump and these people’s white identity politics, they will lose more people than they will gain. I don’t know why you don’t understand it’s more than just white people voting in these elections. Appealing to people who openly express racial animosity hold steadfast that “I’m not racist” are not going to be part of any Democrat coalition going forward. That time has passed.



Look at this. Let's be real, Mich. That guy is voting for Trump. These are Congresswomen who are putting up legislation and this asshole is saying "quit the bitching" and ignoring that they're doing something.
Click to expand...

AOC's Green New Deal that was trying to eliminate air travel is not going to "fly" with regular folk. It's just going to turn people off. Scientists didn't even think it was reasonable. It makes little sense to put forth extreme positions at the risk of alienating people who are on the fence. This is such a basic point, I can't believe it's even being debated here.
 
Ongoing Dem Debacle Thread: Boomers continue self destruction

OK. That explains things. You’re parroting GOP lies. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt but it’s clear now.

https://www.factcheck.org/2019/02/green-new-deal-doesnt-call-for-end-to-air-travel/

The outline included this about infrastructure and industrial projects: “Totally overhaul transportation by massively expanding electric vehicle manufacturing, build charging stations everywhere, build out high-speed rail at a scale where air travel stops becoming necessary, create affordable public transit available to all, with goal to replace every combustion-engine vehicle.”

Now a reasonable person reads that and says “Oh, they want to eliminate short routes between major cities so people aren’t flying between RDU, GSO, and CTL. It’s a waste of energy, time, and space to go wheels up and down in more time than it would take a high speed train.”

Idiots read that and say “Oh MY GAWD AOC WANTS TO ELIMINATE AIR TRAVEL!!!! What will the Wright Bros think!?!?!?!!”
 
Last edited:
PhDeac said:
OK. That explains things. You’re parroting GOP lies. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt but it’s clear now.

https://www.factcheck.org/2019/02/green-new-deal-doesnt-call-for-end-to-air-travel/

The outline included this about infrastructure and industrial projects: “Totally overhaul transportation by massively expanding electric vehicle manufacturing, build charging stations everywhere, build out high-speed rail at a scale where air travel stops becoming necessary, create affordable public transit available to all, with goal to replace every combustion-engine vehicle.”

Now a reasonable person reads that and says “Oh, they want to eliminate short routes between major cities so people aren’t flying between RDU, GSO, and CTL.”

Idiots read that and say “Oh MY GAWD AOC WANTS TO ELIMINATE AIR TRAVEL!!!! What will the Wright Bros think!?!?!?!!”
Click to expand...

It doesn't say it only wants to eliminate shorter routes between cities. Your own citation states, "build out high-speed rail at a scale where air travel stops becoming necessary, create affordable public transit available to all, with goal to replace every combustion-engine vehicle."

Regardless, we're competing for knee-jerk reaction idiot votes here. I think the Green New Deal is laudable. I think the faster we get to electric cars, the better. But the easy punchline from that bill, which in fact, was not even going to do anything other than be aspirational, was to be out of step with the mainstream.

From an NPR article:
And some of the Green New Deal's goals are indeed aggressive. For example, Ocasio-Cortez told NPR that "in 10 years, we're trying to go carbon-neutral."

According to Jesse Jenkins, a postdoctoral environmental fellow at Harvard's Kennedy School, that may be an unreachable goal.

"Where we need to be targeting really is a net-zero carbon economy by about 2050, which itself is an enormous challenge and will require reductions in carbon emissions much faster than have been achieved historically," he said. "2030 might be a little bit early to be targeting."

Similarly, removing combustible engines from the roads or expanding high-speed rail to largely eliminate air travel would require nothing short of revolutionizing transportation.
Click to expand...
 
MichDeac25 said:
It doesn't say it only wants to eliminate shorter routes between cities. Your own citation states, "build out high-speed rail at a scale where air travel stops becoming necessary, create affordable public transit available to all, with goal to replace every combustion-engine vehicle."

Regardless, we're competing for knee-jerk reaction idiot votes here. I think the Green New Deal is laudable. I think the faster we get to electric cars, the better. But the easy punchline from that bill, which in fact, was not even going to do anything other than be aspirational, was to be out of step with the mainstream.

From an NPR article:
Click to expand...

Or you could logically and correctly interpret it to say: it would be way better to take high speed rail between somewhere like Charlotte/Atlanta or DC/Raleigh but that’s not feasible now. You CAN take a train but not high speed rail—currently flying is a way better option.
 
surprised-monkey.jpg
 
Spare Me the Purity Racket


Could go under the Mueller thread. But I’ll put here as it’s mainly about arguing about the best strategy (more unity, less cannibalizing) moving forward to (hopefully) better Democrat success (Trumpublican defeat).

I think the comments are more interesting to read through than the piece itself.
 
Ongoing Dem Debacle Thread: Boomers continue self destruction

It’s weird what minor things are major when it’s Dems and what major things are minor things when it’s Pubs. Imagine if there was a Duncan Hunter scandal but instead of a white male Pub, it was a minority woman Dem.
 
Last edited:
Maureen Dowd was the one most stoking the division, before Trump jumped into the fray.
 
Dowd by way of Pelosi.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top